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Please eat your veggies

Submitted by NAB in Vegan

No, vegtables do not have feelings, there is nothing wrong with killing plants to eat. Vegtables are healthy and nessary for everyone to eat, and they do not care if they are killed.

I understand animal rights, but plant rights is bonkers.

Change my mind.

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RosaReborn wrote

Plants can communicate with one another and they certainly respond physical stimuli. IDK what criteria you need to allow something to have rights? Certainly they they don't experience the world in the same way as animals but they still directly work to survive and shape the world.

I eat vegtables and beans and other things that kill the plant, I'm not saying it's bad, but they certainly care about being killed and I think its fine to at least look at the question of ethics.

As for the name part, vegetation is also a root for 'Vegan' so fruits are still included

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NAB wrote

okay but plants communicate just as much as a mushroom releases spores though. They kinda just do, its like a machiene. Just because they try to stay alive does not mean they have rights, plants are closer to a machiene than a being.

If I code a server to not turn off and try and reboot itself and fix any problems it has to remain on, am I commiting a moral crime if I smash it with a hammer? No, because its just what it does. Im not really doinng anything immoral by stopping it.

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RosaReborn wrote

How do you what plant consciousness is like? Everything that I have learned from recent biology and evolutionary science has shown to me that plants have a different but still developed type of consciousness, and that human tend to overestimate how 'un-robotic' we really are. Again, I support eating whole plants but I recommend the book The Secret Life of Plants which had some interesting stuff.

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NAB wrote

I am aware of what you are talking about, but I still fail to see how a plants feelings no matter how slight even matter.

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RosaReborn wrote

Well ultimately I am of the position that even if they do experience pain, we are still justified in eating whole plants. That being said, you referred to plants and funghi as if they are machines which science has shown is clearly false or at least no more true than it is for human consciousness which also is just responses to stimuli. So it is important to at least consider because as we understand distantly evolved organisms, we see they suffer and experience the world in very real ways even if they are foreign. So if you are opposed to slaughtering animals because it does them harm, you should at least consider the feelings of plants without calling them machines.

People thought lobsters couldn't feel pain, thus the boiling alive method of cooking. Octopuses have neurons spread throughout their body instead of a central brain. Clearly they are different but no less feeling. I am just saying it is important to consider and to determine how you feel about it

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NAB wrote

okay but the issue is this goes down really deep. You could also make an argument eating fruit is unethical because it also responds to stimuli. They can bruise, and their indivudal cells respond to stimuli in indivudal ways just like a cell such a neron, even if they are not structured in a clustered “sentient” way. You reach a point where you begin to think all life is too valuble to eat, and then you yourself will die.

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RosaReborn wrote

Sure which is why I'm saying we should vegetables regardless of the ethics.

Fruits do fall off trees naturally and are evolutionary a product of mutual benefits between plants and animals so I think there may be no ethical argument against fruit eating. Just something to consider

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kore wrote

you're using the word "care" without taking a single moment to hold back and consider what it means when you say that.

It would be a true horror of nature if plants evolved to feel or "care" about pain but did not evolve to run away.

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RosaReborn wrote

Lol what? Plants do produce enzymes and a multitude of other defense mechanisms to keep themselves from being eaten. Fruits on the other hand or specifically sweetened with the intent to be eaten. I am not trying to speculate about what plants feel or care about. I can also only speculate about what any living creature thinks or feels, from animals to fungi to other humans.

but did not evolve to run away

That's not how evolution works

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kore wrote (edited )

I'm just trying to point out that words like "caring" and "feeling" and now "thinking" and "intending" as you have just used in this comment are metaphors we use as humans to understand what plants are doing and do not offer anything productive for this discussion. When you use a word like "intend" to describe the sweetness of fruits, you are suggesting agency on the part of the plant. In the words of a wise person, "that's not how evolution works"

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RosaReborn wrote

Lol that is a very fair point! Ascribing human feelings or intentions or intelligence to other beings is inaccurate

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NAB wrote

also vegtables are litrally in the name “Vegan” I should point out.