Do you ever get discouraged?

Submitted by mouse in Vegan

I do. sometimes upholding veganism, trying to further the cause just seems worthless. same with anarchism is general. my energy is there, the values are there, but i feel like nothing i do can really matter. I'm not going to give up veganism, not now or ever but i get so depressed over the apathy and closed-mindedness of others sometimes that i just dont know what to do.

anyone feel this?



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EmeraldShark wrote

Anyone can take a lighter, walk into a forest, and burn it down.
At some level, you need to release your own accountability.
People are going to exploit animals, in their homes, in factories, on farms, you cannot control that.
There is an ancient coping mechanism, to be thankful for your suffering. This changes the mindset, and provides relief from the psychological pain, and may help you to cope with viewing that suffering of others. Whatever helps you to stay moving, never get stuck.
When talking to others, remember Albert Einstein said, "True education is not the teaching of facts but the training of the mind to think." Rather than pushing one point over and over, which Hitler even said in his book is what you should do to destroy people's education, use many many many examples from all fields, many different people, quotes. Like I say, "Hit it with a kitchen."


ziq wrote

No tbh. Eating a rotting carcass isn't something I crave. You can't control what other people do and if you don't make peace with that you'll burn out on everything and conform.


celebratedrecluse wrote

6 Theses on Liberal Veganism

  • veganism is a consumer choice

  • consumer choice cannot meaningfully reform, let alone abolish capitalism

  • capitalism is defined fundamentally by exploitation of labor (human) and the earth/animals (non-human)

  • those motivated by a desire to end the exploitation of the non-human must abolish capitalism, privilege, and hierarchy in general

  • veganism is insufficient to accomplish the political ends of vegans, at best being a small measure of harm reduction

  • vegans who are concerned with ending exploitation of the non-human should organize with those concerned with ending exploitation of human beings, rather than forming a religious cult based around moral purity derived from the illusion of consumer praxis


thekraken wrote (edited )

I have to prevent myself from taking violent action against people I view as complete fucking unrepentant idiots sometimes. Especially when they're all 'LOL BACON HAHAHAHA'. I'm not sure if this counts as discouraged, but I'm a very naturally aggressive and violent person and it takes willpower and effort to not just attempt to correct the situation myself.

And yes, I see the irony of being an aggressive and violent vegan. I blame all the hormone-infused meat I was fed as a child :P


celebratedrecluse wrote (edited )

Replying to mouse (#79,799)

That's not what I meant to convey lol. we can abolish capitalism, for sure, and we should be trying to do so if we are serious about vegan ethics. That's my position. It sounds to me right now like your position is that we cannot abolish capitalism, so we should just change our diets and forget about the broader systems we are in? Perhaps we misunderstand each other.

harm reduction is harm reduction, but symptoms are not the root of the issue. consumer choice must be ancillary to a more radical praxis, otherwise it is ineffective.

I knew this opinion would be unpopular, but i'm a vegan who is sick and tired of these expensive vegan cafes doing shit-all for the houseless people who live in destitution all around them. People need to get serious about challenging this system of exploitation, both in our diets and in the rest of our lives.


celebratedrecluse wrote

Replying to deleted__ (#89,360)

You are wrongly assuming that veganism and activism towards ending animal exploitation are mutually exclusive.


I'm freegan, and I am vegan when it comes to any commodity choices.

I know there is a distinction.

My argument is more sophisticated than that. Give me & my ideas a chance.

What I am telling you is that commodity choices, and any form of consumer activism, are not going to change the material conditions of society.

In fact, any mass agricultural consumption at all is destroying the planet, resulting in elimination of habitats, and a quieter form of mass killing. It is the same type of mass killings as seen in mass animal husbandry, but more invisible to us, and in fact more profound. Sure, animal agriculture results in a greater degree of suffering, but it's not functionally "worse" than the holocene extinction-- it's just one part of it, and habitat is in fact the larger component of the total destruction in a quantitative telological sense.


Beyond the pissing contest, both of the forms of ecocide are intimately connected.

So what are the ultimate ramifications of this?

Going vegan or agitating for vegan lifestyles is not sufficient for confronting the ecological crisis