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mouse OP wrote

"since we can't abolish capitalism, we shouldn't do anything to even attempt to make a difference whatsoever"

Nice praxis man

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celebratedrecluse wrote (edited )

That's not what I meant to convey lol. we can abolish capitalism, for sure, and we should be trying to do so if we are serious about vegan ethics. That's my position. It sounds to me right now like your position is that we cannot abolish capitalism, so we should just change our diets and forget about the broader systems we are in? Perhaps we misunderstand each other.

harm reduction is harm reduction, but symptoms are not the root of the issue. consumer choice must be ancillary to a more radical praxis, otherwise it is ineffective.

I knew this opinion would be unpopular, but i'm a vegan who is sick and tired of these expensive vegan cafes doing shit-all for the houseless people who live in destitution all around them. People need to get serious about challenging this system of exploitation, both in our diets and in the rest of our lives.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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celebratedrecluse wrote

You are wrongly assuming that veganism and activism towards ending animal exploitation are mutually exclusive.

/thesis

I'm freegan, and I am vegan when it comes to any commodity choices.

I know there is a distinction.

My argument is more sophisticated than that. Give me & my ideas a chance.

What I am telling you is that commodity choices, and any form of consumer activism, are not going to change the material conditions of society.

In fact, any mass agricultural consumption at all is destroying the planet, resulting in elimination of habitats, and a quieter form of mass killing. It is the same type of mass killings as seen in mass animal husbandry, but more invisible to us, and in fact more profound. Sure, animal agriculture results in a greater degree of suffering, but it's not functionally "worse" than the holocene extinction-- it's just one part of it, and habitat is in fact the larger component of the total destruction in a quantitative telological sense.

/antithesis

Beyond the pissing contest, both of the forms of ecocide are intimately connected.

So what are the ultimate ramifications of this?

Going vegan or agitating for vegan lifestyles is not sufficient for confronting the ecological crisis

/synthesis

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