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Do you ever get discouraged?

Submitted by mouse in Vegan

I do. sometimes upholding veganism, trying to further the cause just seems worthless. same with anarchism is general. my energy is there, the values are there, but i feel like nothing i do can really matter. I'm not going to give up veganism, not now or ever but i get so depressed over the apathy and closed-mindedness of others sometimes that i just dont know what to do.

anyone feel this?

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7

ziq wrote

No tbh. Eating a rotting carcass isn't something I crave. You can't control what other people do and if you don't make peace with that you'll burn out on everything and conform.

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thekraken wrote (edited )

I have to prevent myself from taking violent action against people I view as complete fucking unrepentant idiots sometimes. Especially when they're all 'LOL BACON HAHAHAHA'. I'm not sure if this counts as discouraged, but I'm a very naturally aggressive and violent person and it takes willpower and effort to not just attempt to correct the situation myself.

And yes, I see the irony of being an aggressive and violent vegan. I blame all the hormone-infused meat I was fed as a child :P

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gone wrote

I'm not a violent or aggressive person by nature, but I have been pushed beyond my limits and would gladly correct certain situations I currently have to live with if I could get away with it.

I'm old and I understand the discouragement. I drink homemade soy drink out of mason jars because I cannot stand the thought of having to listen to one more eejut say, "Have you ever heard of Weston A. Price?" and trying to get the necessary info to provide appropriate nutrition for my canine life companion is frustrating.

It reminds me more of when I was the only vegetarian kid in my elementary school in 1972 than when everybody wanted me to talk about food because I was experienced when veganism was kewl and tryn-dee in 2009ish.

I'm still experienced and I feel safe talking about food here any time I want.

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EmeraldShark wrote

Anyone can take a lighter, walk into a forest, and burn it down.
At some level, you need to release your own accountability.
People are going to exploit animals, in their homes, in factories, on farms, you cannot control that.
There is an ancient coping mechanism, to be thankful for your suffering. This changes the mindset, and provides relief from the psychological pain, and may help you to cope with viewing that suffering of others. Whatever helps you to stay moving, never get stuck.
When talking to others, remember Albert Einstein said, "True education is not the teaching of facts but the training of the mind to think." Rather than pushing one point over and over, which Hitler even said in his book is what you should do to destroy people's education, use many many many examples from all fields, many different people, quotes. Like I say, "Hit it with a kitchen."

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celebratedrecluse wrote

6 Theses on Liberal Veganism

  • veganism is a consumer choice

  • consumer choice cannot meaningfully reform, let alone abolish capitalism

  • capitalism is defined fundamentally by exploitation of labor (human) and the earth/animals (non-human)

  • those motivated by a desire to end the exploitation of the non-human must abolish capitalism, privilege, and hierarchy in general

  • veganism is insufficient to accomplish the political ends of vegans, at best being a small measure of harm reduction

  • vegans who are concerned with ending exploitation of the non-human should organize with those concerned with ending exploitation of human beings, rather than forming a religious cult based around moral purity derived from the illusion of consumer praxis

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mouse wrote

"since we can't abolish capitalism, we shouldn't do anything to even attempt to make a difference whatsoever"

Nice praxis man

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celebratedrecluse wrote (edited )

That's not what I meant to convey lol. we can abolish capitalism, for sure, and we should be trying to do so if we are serious about vegan ethics. That's my position. It sounds to me right now like your position is that we cannot abolish capitalism, so we should just change our diets and forget about the broader systems we are in? Perhaps we misunderstand each other.

harm reduction is harm reduction, but symptoms are not the root of the issue. consumer choice must be ancillary to a more radical praxis, otherwise it is ineffective.

I knew this opinion would be unpopular, but i'm a vegan who is sick and tired of these expensive vegan cafes doing shit-all for the houseless people who live in destitution all around them. People need to get serious about challenging this system of exploitation, both in our diets and in the rest of our lives.

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hjek wrote (edited )

You are wrongly assuming that veganism and activism towards ending animal exploitation are mutually exclusive. In fact, it might be the other way around: Not shoving their carcasses into our mouths is a necessary first step towards carrying out further activism.

But I agree that veganism is not enough. Everyone who are upset about this ongoing mass murder should take the liberation pledge.

Also, I refuse to take advice from carnivores telling me that what I do is "not effective". It's their dishonest way of wriggling out the cognitive dissonance they experience, when thinking of themselves as friendly while endorsing mass murder.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

You are wrongly assuming that veganism and activism towards ending animal exploitation are mutually exclusive.

/thesis

I'm freegan, and I am vegan when it comes to any commodity choices.

I know there is a distinction.

My argument is more sophisticated than that. Give me & my ideas a chance.

What I am telling you is that commodity choices, and any form of consumer activism, are not going to change the material conditions of society.

In fact, any mass agricultural consumption at all is destroying the planet, resulting in elimination of habitats, and a quieter form of mass killing. It is the same type of mass killings as seen in mass animal husbandry, but more invisible to us, and in fact more profound. Sure, animal agriculture results in a greater degree of suffering, but it's not functionally "worse" than the holocene extinction-- it's just one part of it, and habitat is in fact the larger component of the total destruction in a quantitative telological sense.

/antithesis

Beyond the pissing contest, both of the forms of ecocide are intimately connected.

So what are the ultimate ramifications of this?

Going vegan or agitating for vegan lifestyles is not sufficient for confronting the ecological crisis

/synthesis

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hjek wrote

Some facts:

  • Livestock + byproducts account for 51% of our greenhouse gas emissions.
  • Animal agriculture is responsible for 91% of Amazon deforestation
  • Livestock covers 45% of the Earth's total land

In fact, any mass agricultural consumption at all is destroying the planet, resulting

Livestock accounts for a disproportionately big part of mass agricultural consumption: It takes up 83% of the Earth's farmland.

Going vegan or agitating for vegan lifestyles is not sufficient for confronting the ecological crisis

Even though I don't believe it to be true (as argued above), let us just assume it is anyway: If it is used as an excuse to fail to act, then it's clearly just a bad excuse, because the same can be said about any individual issue contributing to the ecological crisis: That acting against that isn't going to solve everything. On the other hand, if it is used as an argument for taking additional action, that's great!

Additionally, not all vegans are vegans from a purely environmental stand point. In my view arguing that we shouldn't do factory farms because they pollute is like arguing that we should do kz camps because of the harmful smoke from the ovens. Both arguments are valid, but they're not accounting for the pain and suffering inflicted on the imprisoned.

i'm a vegan who is sick and tired of these expensive vegan cafes doing shit-all for the houseless people who live in destitution all around them.

You should be sick and tired of that! Those cafes should help the homeless. Where I live, fortunately the few vegan shops and cafes are good at that. But then we also have the Homeless Hotdog project, which is helping the homeless by providing them with tortured animal carcasses to ingest.

I think you make an important point that one kind of activism should not exclude another kind, e.g. that caring about animal welfare shouldn't permit you to not give a shit about the homeless, and I couldn't agree more!