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Fossidarity wrote

Reply to comment by !deleted1196 in comic: "I don't eat meat. I'm not a psychopath..." by bel793

In what region would eating vegan be more expensive than not eating vegan?

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indi wrote

There are actually several places in the world where a vegan diet is more expensive than a non-vegan diet.

For example, there are a lot of places like islands and mountain areas where farmland is extremely limited. So you grow what you can where you can, and you use animals like goats and sheep to help out with clearing plots, eating all the stuff the humans can't eat (like the parts of the crops that aren't edible like stalks and roots), and of course provide fertilizer. And then you eat the goats. And of course, throughout all of this, you're getting milk, eggs, and other by-products from the animals as well. That's how they survive, because the crops alone aren't enough.

Also, islands and coastal areas generally depend heavily on fish, again because of the shortage of farmland.

And then there are people like the Inuit in the north, where growing food is basically impossible, so they rely very heavily on meat and other animal by-products. Shipping food in is extremely expensive, and storage in any way but freezing is problematic. Meat freezes very well; veggies and fruits, not so much. And given their environmental conditions, they really need the extra fat in their diet, which is really hard to get from a vegan diet.

And of course, as others have noted, there are people in urban areas. It's not exactly a rare situation in cities that healthy produce is difficult to find and expensive... but factory-farmed meats are dirt cheap. Vegan options are frequently overpriced, if not just for the sake of ripping people off, then for technical reasons like the difficulty of preservation. Even where I am, pound-for-pound, it would be way cheaper to get most of the calories I need to survive from meat or other animal products than from vegan options. A poor person living in the city may simply not be able to afford going vegan.

I sympathize with the ethical stance of a vegan diet, but calling these people "psychopaths" - and even worse, "not normal" - is the height of first-world elitism.

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[deleted] wrote

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Fossidarity wrote

Well I'm sorry that you live in such a horrible region where you're force-fed meat. My heart goes out to you and the people in your region, because being forced to eat meat would be torture to me.

I still hope that the people in your region strife to a vegan lifestyle whenever possible, every animal that's bred for slaughter less would be a tiny bit of suffering less in the world.

The ground that's used in your region for meat production could better be used for much higher yields of vegetables if people would eat vegan globally, so at least people don't have to starve from vitamin deficiencies and less ground needs to be used for the same production so the forest could recover more.

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[deleted] wrote

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Fossidarity wrote

I'm not sure if I agree with you on this one, I think that most people in the world do have the option to be vegan, and guilt is a strong emotion so convincing people emotionally would be a good tactic. Of course it's not the only tactic but many people already feel emotional attachments to animals, and I think that it's mostly culture that's stopping a lot of people from making the step.

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raindropq wrote

so , slaughter equivalent to mistreatment in your view. i find that to be socially problematic; drawing a line in the sand which unfairly (reactionarily?) places the overwhelming majority of people in-with the psychopathic god, Industry.

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Fossidarity wrote (edited )

Since the overwhelming majority of people live in modern industrial societies I don't think that's unfair. And I don't see how slaughter isn't a form of mistreatment, if a group of humans would be systemically slaughtered it wouldn't even be questioned if it's mistreatment or not.

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raindropq wrote

um , i want for to destroy the industrial society and its subsequent codes and methods. seems like an anthropocentric fallacy like The Golden Rule (maybe) to treat others how we want to be treated. rather, as many animals identify as prey, they thrive under attack, adapting/evolving stronger for the challenge. Prince Kropotkin said something about it. also, a wild hog will systematically kill you and eat you, so will a hungry lion, wolf or crocodile, i wouldn't consider that "mistreatment" or psychopathy . i actually favor the vegan option, as a personal option for healing and guiding , for cultivating serene communion / spiritual harmony but, i also value the evolved capacity for travelling out-of tropical regions and seasonal migrations. grasshoppers and some ants are also delicious. and sometimes crops fail for various causes so it's important to maintain preparation for contigency.

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raindropq wrote

the schools are feeding kids extremely unfortunately , animal products from factories , atrocious horrific disgusting shameful. let's pressure them , offer/demonstrate more wholesome alternatives and Earth / Biology based spirituality.. what if schools could be encouraged to transition from gross factory consumption to local, autonomous production. why not have animals grazing the play fields instead of lawnmowers and kids learning to homestead, steward and scavenge instead of FFA and Google ?

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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sinnamann wrote

Farm animals don't eat vegetables. They eat soy, canola, hay and grass. Humans can't live on animal food.

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