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10

Dumai wrote

food deserts are just one of the many reasons why a lot of people can't go vegan - consider those recovering from eating disorders or the fact that many poor people on welfare do not have full control over their food consumption choices! i mean i'm vegan for political/ethical reasons and i do think when people talk about food deserts the conclusion really needs to be "we can and should take action help alleviate these problems", rather than taking it for granted that food deserts will always exist. but i think calling non-vegans psychopaths is really shitty because for many it's a choice between not restricting their eating or dying.

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____deleted____ wrote

i think calling non-vegans psychopaths is really shitty because for many it's a choice between not restricting their eating or dying.

As a non-vegan, I assume its intended towards the conscious ones who choose to eat meat.

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Pop wrote

I have no idea what this person what trying to achieve with this comic

but calling other people psychopaths is probably not a good way to go about anything other than a circlejerk

5

Fossidarity wrote (edited )

Well in a way psychopath is a fitting term, maybe not on a per person basis but modern animal husbandry is quite horrible. The lack of empathy that typifies psychopathy definitely fits a society that abuses animals this way.

4

bel793 wrote

She's pointing out that our behaviour towards animals is "unhuman" and has an absolute lack of empathy.

While most people are actually sympathetic towards animals they do ignore the mistreatement that took place when they are profiting from their suffering.

I don't want to judge people for that, we're all flawed, but it's nice if you try to atleast reduce meat, milk and egg consumption or don't go to circuses or zoos.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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Fossidarity wrote

In what region would eating vegan be more expensive than not eating vegan?

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Dumai wrote (edited )

in most places in the world the poor have barely any access to meat, but that's not the case in a lot of the developed world -- and even if they can find cheap vegan food in their area, time is not an easily expendable resource for most working class households and a lot of vegan food/meals touted as nutritional replacements for meat take a fucking age to cook

2

indi wrote

There are actually several places in the world where a vegan diet is more expensive than a non-vegan diet.

For example, there are a lot of places like islands and mountain areas where farmland is extremely limited. So you grow what you can where you can, and you use animals like goats and sheep to help out with clearing plots, eating all the stuff the humans can't eat (like the parts of the crops that aren't edible like stalks and roots), and of course provide fertilizer. And then you eat the goats. And of course, throughout all of this, you're getting milk, eggs, and other by-products from the animals as well. That's how they survive, because the crops alone aren't enough.

Also, islands and coastal areas generally depend heavily on fish, again because of the shortage of farmland.

And then there are people like the Inuit in the north, where growing food is basically impossible, so they rely very heavily on meat and other animal by-products. Shipping food in is extremely expensive, and storage in any way but freezing is problematic. Meat freezes very well; veggies and fruits, not so much. And given their environmental conditions, they really need the extra fat in their diet, which is really hard to get from a vegan diet.

And of course, as others have noted, there are people in urban areas. It's not exactly a rare situation in cities that healthy produce is difficult to find and expensive... but factory-farmed meats are dirt cheap. Vegan options are frequently overpriced, if not just for the sake of ripping people off, then for technical reasons like the difficulty of preservation. Even where I am, pound-for-pound, it would be way cheaper to get most of the calories I need to survive from meat or other animal products than from vegan options. A poor person living in the city may simply not be able to afford going vegan.

I sympathize with the ethical stance of a vegan diet, but calling these people "psychopaths" - and even worse, "not normal" - is the height of first-world elitism.

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[deleted] wrote

5

Fossidarity wrote

Well I'm sorry that you live in such a horrible region where you're force-fed meat. My heart goes out to you and the people in your region, because being forced to eat meat would be torture to me.

I still hope that the people in your region strife to a vegan lifestyle whenever possible, every animal that's bred for slaughter less would be a tiny bit of suffering less in the world.

The ground that's used in your region for meat production could better be used for much higher yields of vegetables if people would eat vegan globally, so at least people don't have to starve from vitamin deficiencies and less ground needs to be used for the same production so the forest could recover more.

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[deleted] wrote

1

Fossidarity wrote

I'm not sure if I agree with you on this one, I think that most people in the world do have the option to be vegan, and guilt is a strong emotion so convincing people emotionally would be a good tactic. Of course it's not the only tactic but many people already feel emotional attachments to animals, and I think that it's mostly culture that's stopping a lot of people from making the step.

1

raindropq wrote

so , slaughter equivalent to mistreatment in your view. i find that to be socially problematic; drawing a line in the sand which unfairly (reactionarily?) places the overwhelming majority of people in-with the psychopathic god, Industry.

5

Fossidarity wrote (edited )

Since the overwhelming majority of people live in modern industrial societies I don't think that's unfair. And I don't see how slaughter isn't a form of mistreatment, if a group of humans would be systemically slaughtered it wouldn't even be questioned if it's mistreatment or not.

1

raindropq wrote

um , i want for to destroy the industrial society and its subsequent codes and methods. seems like an anthropocentric fallacy like The Golden Rule (maybe) to treat others how we want to be treated. rather, as many animals identify as prey, they thrive under attack, adapting/evolving stronger for the challenge. Prince Kropotkin said something about it. also, a wild hog will systematically kill you and eat you, so will a hungry lion, wolf or crocodile, i wouldn't consider that "mistreatment" or psychopathy . i actually favor the vegan option, as a personal option for healing and guiding , for cultivating serene communion / spiritual harmony but, i also value the evolved capacity for travelling out-of tropical regions and seasonal migrations. grasshoppers and some ants are also delicious. and sometimes crops fail for various causes so it's important to maintain preparation for contigency.

4

raindropq wrote

the schools are feeding kids extremely unfortunately , animal products from factories , atrocious horrific disgusting shameful. let's pressure them , offer/demonstrate more wholesome alternatives and Earth / Biology based spirituality.. what if schools could be encouraged to transition from gross factory consumption to local, autonomous production. why not have animals grazing the play fields instead of lawnmowers and kids learning to homestead, steward and scavenge instead of FFA and Google ?

3

jorgesumle wrote (edited )

But farm animals don't usually eat meat, so the cost of the vegetables they import for those animals should be cheaper.

1

sinnamann wrote

Farm animals don't eat vegetables. They eat soy, canola, hay and grass. Humans can't live on animal food.

3

bel793 wrote

I live off of 50€ a month and can afford it...

The only place I know in France where it does cost more is the overseas where they have to import vegetables

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[deleted] wrote

1

bel793 wrote

This is basically true for everywhere in the Western World, and people in poor countries like India have been living on such a diet for hundreds of years.

In fact, most vegetarians and vegans inspire themselves from them for their diet.

I do live with someone but no children.

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[deleted] wrote

3

bel793 wrote

That's not what I've been saying, but sorry I don't want to put bad blood between us, I can understand that it's not a choice in some places.

Just for the overwhelming majority of people, it's simply hard psychologically to not consume any animal products and not financially.

Bonne journée~

2

raindropq wrote (edited )

should we rather conform to an ethical diet under the choices proffered by sedentary capitalist industry? allow it to divert our potential course to its purpose?

we've endured countless millenia , wandering through deserts and grasslands , traversing forested mountains, following rivers and coastlines.. we can't possibly carry enough dried beans and nuts.

boycotting and shaming is ineffectual if we aren't seizing the means of produce. the overwhelming majority of people prefer to consume some animal products at least occasionally and provide for their children too. autonomous-collective, small farms allow for intimate familiarity and actual choice.sustenance lifestyle necessitates empathy / attention toward reciprocal dynamic. /

4

selver wrote

As long as there is even one person left on earth with no access to vegan options all arguments are invalid!

I like the comic. Not every vegan argument has to target the whole of humanity. This one is targeted at people who have the means to not eat meat, but choose not to. Sure, that says something about the privilege of the creator, but so what? It's still useful within their bubble.

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[deleted] wrote

1

bel793 wrote

Insolente Veggie is on a pretty joking tone, you have to take it second-degree ¯_(ツ)_/¯

1

____deleted____ wrote

I think the major issue here is implying being a psychopath is an issue; I have friends whom are, and they're plenty good people.

4

raindropq wrote (edited )

and maybe the person -calling theirself normal whilst name-calling and scorning- doing the minimum to support the interests of other species' babies and old people, is (ironically) psychopathetic, too !