Submitted by ziq in Vegan (edited )

https://twitter.com/Anarqxista/status/1570830997830397952

I've never killed a plant in order to eat it, that would be incredibly wasteful and counter-productive.

Fruit:

Plants produce fruit so that it gets eaten in order to spread its seed. It's how it reproduces. Plants want you to eat their fruit and shit it out all over the land.

Greens:

When I eat greens, I take the greens and leave the roots so they can make more greens and eventually seeds so they can make more plants. Why would I tear out the roots? Then I would only get one meal instead of infinite meals. Makes 0 sense to do that.

Root crops:

Though I only grow and eat sweet potatoes (a perennial), this can be said for most root crops: They don't die when you eat a piece of their expansive root system. They keep pushing up new growth and making new tubers (clones of themselves).

Even for-profit potato farmers don't take all the potatoes, they always leave the small ones so they'll have another harvest the next year and the year after that and so on. If they killed the entire root system, they'd go out of business. The plants don't die when you take some roots, they keep cloning themselves for years.

The only exception I can think of is carrots, so don't eat carrots if it bothers you instead of using other people eating carrots as a reason for you to keep killing animals (and carrots, undoubtedly).

But even with carrots, you could just leave part of the root behind if you wanted and let it grow back and set seed. That's what my mother does because she's too cheap to buy seeds.

Mushrooms:

Eating the above ground parts as they pop up has no bearing on the actual plant, which is immense and lives entirely underground most of the year.

Conclusion:

If you don't want to kill plants, don't kill them. It's not hard to subsist on fruit, nuts, seeds, perennial greens like Malabar spinach and cut-and-come-again non-perennials (chard, lettuce, kale, mustard, collards).

Oh, what's that? You only eat food grown by other people using industrial methods, for profit? Well, what kind of anarchy is that?

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lettuceLeafer wrote

Yeah a lot of arguments just boil down to people just being extremely out of touch.

I think the fairly likely counter argument would be,

well you are using your position to use systemic force on plants. Which is a potential hierarchy

For one I don't think taking leaves of a plant is similar to cutting someone's arm off. Plants routinely kill off leaves to benefit themself. While I would never cut off my arm to reduce my calorie needs. Plus things like apples drop off one their own. So for one I have eaten plenty of apples I just picked off the ground. Plus if the time is right they often just fall off when you touch them.

For starches, letting the plant die then taking the roots is not that uncommon. Plus it justmakes sense to leave the smaller potatoes. But in that case would there be a hierarchy over the potatoes? If the potato would routinely put in lots of effort stroring calories for you to take the surplus over and over again. Building a similar dynamic to feudalism where the peasant grows food and the strongest person in the territory lords come take a bunch of stuff. One time is force, but routinely becomes a system of governance.

If I run into a potato plant and then remember later on to go take surplus potatoes then it's just stealing. But if I'm part of the ecosystem and routinely taking and the potatoes growth is largely controlled by me for years and years. Does that constitute a hierarchy?

I would say this is getting pretty grey area. But relative to the modern lifestyle this level of oppression is extremely minimal. So I don't think it's a interesting question. Not have I lived enough in that way to make an informed opinion.

Yeah anarqxista has plenty of bad takes other than this too. It's extremely cringe to read a good essay and then read about how their anarchist goals are to eat meat and go to the orchestra lol.

Tldr: yeah I agree with you

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ziq OP wrote

If I run into a potato plant and then remember later on to go take surplus potatoes then it's just stealing. But if I'm part of the ecosystem and routinely taking and the potatoes growth is largely controlled by me for years and years. Does that constitute a hierarchy?

None of it's a hierarchy because the way ecology works, everything exists to help everything around it prosper, in order to also help itself prosper.

A plant makes leaves that are eaten by e.g. bugs that poop on the soil, feeding the plant and allowing it to make more leaves to feed more bugs to harvest more poop to grow more leaves, so it can eventually make seed and reproduce.

The plant doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's part of a circular ecosystem. The plant is using other species to aid its own survival, just as those species use the plant to survive.

As long as you're giving back to the ecosystem you're taking from (like by shitting on the soil or spreading compost or planting nitrogen fixers or whatever) in a way that's enough to maintain balance, you're doing your part.

It's when we disconnect from the ecosystem, like with industrial meat production, or industrial grain production, when we create domination over the land and ensure the ecosystem will eventually be starved to death.

Monocrop deserts (corn, wheat, etc) are fucked up because they've displaced 10000s of diverse species that were growing in harmony with each other in order to grow 1 engineered crop that only benefits 1 engineered species (humans).

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wednesday wrote

None of it's a hierarchy because the way ecology works, everything exists to help everything around it prosper, in order to also help itself prosper.

would you also accept this argument if applied to humans hunting wild animals for sustenance (not trade)?

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ziq OP wrote

Depends on the people and the ecosystem they inhabit.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

yeah I agree with that. Most times if you not trying to dominate the local ecosystem its hard to create hierarchy. There are some edge cases but generally speaking its true.

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moonlune wrote

life is overrated

nobody cares about life really

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kinshavo wrote

Well, what kind of anarchy is that?

Incomplete Anarchy, don't go hard on ourselves, I still would eat fungal beings for nutrition and for amusement.

The whole argument comparing plant life and animal life is silly if we don't stablish some amoral grounds. Even fungal organisms demonstrate a kind of intelligence beyond our comprehension.

And just to be iconoclast, what about bacterial life that form colonies¿ Should we just kill our immune system to avoid harming those?

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asterism wrote

as of like three weeks ago I planted 4 chives.

I am basically a farmer now.

/j

also me and the carrots were talking and they are tired of living now so they asked me to kill them.

/j
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ziq OP wrote

I grow chives (and onions) just for pest control (they keep bugs away from the other plants). Such an easy plant to grow.

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asterism wrote

This I didn't know.

So do you hedge the other plants with chives or how does that work?

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ziq OP wrote

i just stick some chives plants around the beds randomly

they spread fast, so i just have to keep them from getting too big (by separating the roots and replanting them in other beds).

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asterism wrote

If you are ever in the mood to make more posts about plants (like this one) I will read them.

I am incredibly out of touch with the processes that go into growing food and its probab:y just a pipe dream but I would like to learn to garden/farm one of these days so i find info like this super valuable.

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moonlune wrote

It's so easy! It feels like you're cheating! Drop a seed, muck around a little for a few months, pick your food. The amount of food you get compared to the amount of energy invested and land used is both surprisingly big and surprisingly small.

Granted I've only grown a vegetable patch worth for fun and could not be dependent on it but I got to eat my own berries instead of buying them.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

idk, sometimes its not that easy. Bushes and trees yes. But when I would try to do that the wild grasses grew so much faster and would grow tall then fall on top of the edible plants. So mulching and management becomes more of a thing to worry about for ground plants.

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ziq OP wrote

got to use raised beds on grassy land

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moonlune wrote (edited )

Just plant jerusalem artichokes and horseradish and mint and other invasive species ez pz

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roanoke9 wrote

Alot of plants are perennial or aggressive self seeders that most people with a home garden just plant and pull, buying new seeds or worse starter plants every year. People who grow things are rare and even among those, saving seeds is rarer still. In cities anyway. I have a city lot nearly filled with food and medicine plants about 150 species not counting varieties. Is there a gardening/farming sub?

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roanoke9 wrote

I still eat some dairy but that's a failing on my part, I wouldn't argue for it.

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yetanotherusername wrote

what if you view each leaf, potato, and/or meristem as an individual

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