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ziq OP wrote

If I run into a potato plant and then remember later on to go take surplus potatoes then it's just stealing. But if I'm part of the ecosystem and routinely taking and the potatoes growth is largely controlled by me for years and years. Does that constitute a hierarchy?

None of it's a hierarchy because the way ecology works, everything exists to help everything around it prosper, in order to also help itself prosper.

A plant makes leaves that are eaten by e.g. bugs that poop on the soil, feeding the plant and allowing it to make more leaves to feed more bugs to harvest more poop to grow more leaves, so it can eventually make seed and reproduce.

The plant doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's part of a circular ecosystem. The plant is using other species to aid its own survival, just as those species use the plant to survive.

As long as you're giving back to the ecosystem you're taking from (like by shitting on the soil or spreading compost or planting nitrogen fixers or whatever) in a way that's enough to maintain balance, you're doing your part.

It's when we disconnect from the ecosystem, like with industrial meat production, or industrial grain production, when we create domination over the land and ensure the ecosystem will eventually be starved to death.

Monocrop deserts (corn, wheat, etc) are fucked up because they've displaced 10000s of diverse species that were growing in harmony with each other in order to grow 1 engineered crop that only benefits 1 engineered species (humans).

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wednesday wrote

None of it's a hierarchy because the way ecology works, everything exists to help everything around it prosper, in order to also help itself prosper.

would you also accept this argument if applied to humans hunting wild animals for sustenance (not trade)?

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ziq OP wrote

Depends on the people and the ecosystem they inhabit.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

yeah I agree with that. Most times if you not trying to dominate the local ecosystem its hard to create hierarchy. There are some edge cases but generally speaking its true.

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