You wouldn't download a cheese... sauce... recipe

Submitted by Fool in Vegan (edited )

"Cheese" Sauce

(This recipe made me realise cheese on pasta, etc. is mostly for salt)

400g potato peeled, 1cm cubes
80g carrot, 1 cm cubes
60g celery, chopped
1 bunch of shallots, the white parts, chopped
100g raw cashews (or regional equivalent)
500g water
1 tsp citric acid (or lemon juice)
2-3 tsp salt (this gives it the cheese like kick, adjust to desired amount)

Method: Chop all vegetables and place all ingredients in saucepan, boil until vegetables are tender. Blend or mash. Adjust consistency by adding water if necessary.

9

Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

metocin wrote

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/nov/02/cashew-nut-workers-pay-conditions-profits

vegans shouldn't be eating cashews if we're going to claim to care about ethics

5

halfway_prince wrote (edited )

What kind of device did you use to post this comment? My understanding is pretty much any technology that you used to access this site was designed/engineered/manufactured using unethical labor....

This is not to say that we shouldn't reflect/be conscious of the impacts of consumption, but your comment feels pretty soap-boxy. There is no ethical consumption in this society, the best we can do is minimize our impacts.

The moral and environmental impact of eating a cashew-based cheese is still better than a dairy alternative. Gatekeeping and perfectionism are incredibly detrimental to environmental harm reduction.

Also, just like, let people live without constantly making everything a critique. People participate in veganism in very different ways.

Fool: I love the post, done something similar before and it's always a big hit

edit: using the "no ethical consumption in this society" argument was lame. I agree with most of my original post but want to acknowledge that argument is flawed...should have better articulated it but oh well

7

metocin wrote

I love when so called radicals and vegans use the same arguments as reactionaries.

"There is no ethical consumption under capitalism" "You claim to be a socialist yet youre using an iphone hmm?" "Can't you just let people enjoy (unethical/unsustainable) things?"

Guess what? I didn't buy this device first hand. I don't purchase foods that are grown in unethical conditions including coffee and chocolate. I know it must be so hard to do more than the bare minimum of being vegan but quit using those lame fucking cop outs, you sound like a pathetic carnist.

I think it's ridiculous that, even aside from serious ethical concerns like cashews, people are consuming foods grown thousands of kms away from them in the global south and think nothing of it. They will be pretend to be radicals while downing coconut milk and avocados. That's not a sustainable way to live. As a green anarchist I think it's completely out of line with my values to actively support such ecologically unsound consumption patterns.

I will continue to critique everything. I will not live in ignorance.

4

lettuceLeafer wrote (edited )

But, due to how stuff is transported most locally grown food at grocery stores often has a similar carbon footprint to stuff grown in the global south. So unless u only eat at yuppie over priced farmers markets ur argument doesn't have much ground for the sustainable part.

So once again this is a situation where the "true radicals" are middle class people who blow their excess money on consumer goods.

3

metocin wrote (edited )

Explain how something that has to travel thousands of kms more has a similar footprint? I live in a pretty remote area and eating stuff grown in the same province or nearby provinces is clearly traveling less than something grown in california, mexico, or fucking thailand. Are you seriously arguing that something that comes in on a container ship and multiple truck routes has a "similar" carbon footprint to something that is moved on 1 truck? I don't eat "yuppie over priced" food, but I do choose to eat as locally as possible.

It's very easy to come up with vague arguments to imply I'm some middle class wanker when the reality is I'm just as broke as anyone on here, working a shitty minimum wage job trying to pay my bills and tuition. That doesn't mean I get to mindlessly consume products that come from half way around the world produced in extremely unethical conditions that I wouldn't have access to if it wasn't for neoliberal western states and global market imperialism.

You can make up as many arguments and insults as you like but at the end of the day they're just excuses.

3

lettuceLeafer wrote

Explain how something that has to travel thousands of kms more has a similar footprint? I live in a pretty remote area and eating stuff grown in the same province or nearby provinces is clearly traveling less than something grown in california, mexico, or fucking thailand. Are you seriously arguing that something that comes in on a container ship and multiple truck routes has a "similar" carbon footprint to something that is moved on 1 truck

But like the burden if proof is on u. Did u personally research what the internal distribution process for this locally grown food Is? Often times they are ridiculous. Even if it's grown locally doesn't mean it's not more profitable for these grocery stores to ship food that is grown 1 km away to China for processing then ship it back. This is Often the case. But most of the time this information isn't publicly available. U assume what the distribution looks like rather than actually know what it's like.

So now to be more ethical people should be spending lots of hours researching the distribution process of every food item they buy. Simply assuming what it would look like doesn't proove anything. Tho it sounds like u didnt do this and just assumed it.

I never said u werent working class. I said it was yuppie to look at the world and it's problems and think wow the best use of my time and money is to research the internal distribution process of every food item and buy and buy somewhat overpriced stuff at farmers markets. Just so u can argue that u are slightly more ethical or whatever.

That's a lot of time and energy to be spend on feeling good about your consumption habits. You also assume that what people buy has any difference on what grocery stores and farm create and ship around. So the burden of proof is to prove that what u buy causes any change in what the carbon footprint of grocery stores is.

I also think it's yuppie to just swallow liberal propaganda about more ethical capitalism without actually having evidence to back it up. U are talking about a really complicated issue that requires a lot more thinking about planning on if it's grown locally or not. Due to the fact that often times lower carbon footprint and locally grown are mutually exclusive.

1

metocin wrote (edited )

So you think the carrots I buy in a grocery store that are grown 25km from my apartment are processed in China? You can't just say "the burden of proof is on you" and magically win an argument when youre claiming such ridiculous things. I don't research every product I buy, but I do my best to stick to buying things that are only able to grow somewhat close to me and are labeled products of Canada. I'm not suggesting everyone has to do intense research on what they're buying and eating. I'm suggesting people do the bare minimum. I'm also not suggesting you "vote with your wallet" (even though I don't disagree with that), I'm suggesting its unethical to claim you're a radical green anarchist while consuming products made by extremely underpaid, impoverished peoples in the global south, regardless of what impact not consuming those products has. Even if my choice to not eat animals doesn't have any impact (it does), I am a more ethical person for not consuming them. I think that the same applies to any products with which I have a serious ethical or sustainability concern.

I like the concept of prefiguration, and in my ideal world everyone would be eating food that is locally and sustainably grown, with very little international trade (because there wouldn't be massive cargo ships). So therefore I will do my best to live my ideal and eat as local as possible.

And as if it's not "yuppie" to enthusiastically defend mindless consumption. Give me a break.

3

lettuceLeafer wrote

So you think the carrots I buy in a grocery store that are grown 25km from my apartment are processed in China?

I never said they aren't. I say often times food is shipped to a less developed country due to cheaper processing. You and both have no idea where these carrots grown 25km away are shipped to. So u have no idea if your locally grown food is actually lower carbon emissions. These are ridiculous things its somewhat common.

I mean what I'm saying isn't ridiculous to consider bc it actually happens a lot. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/nw-salmon-sent-to-china-before-reaching-us-tables/

so if u don't know what the internal shipping process of the food u buy u have no arguement

1

metocin wrote

Except that article is about salmon, and I'm not talking about animal products here. Animal products require more intense processing so I don't doubt that happens often with those products. To imply that raw carrots are shipped far away to be processed when there is literally no processing happening is ridiculous. I know damn well that the carrots I buy that are from a small local farm are not sent hundreds or thousands of kms away.

I do have an argument because as I have said in the previous post, I don't expect everyone to research the internal shipping process, just that they do their best to buy foods that are able to grow locally to them and buy them from local producers as much as possible.

3

halfway_prince wrote

I wanna say i see where you're coming from and absolutely agree that your line of thinking and mode of approaching this problems is ideologically consistent, and yours is an important voice to be shared. I think that strong critiques are essential, and dissenting voices that force uncomfortable conversations often help to shift discourse in the right direction.

I feel your discussion with lettuceLeafer's kinda went down the path i was trying to throw in here and they articulated most of what i would want to say so not going to go much further there.

What I would want to say (and i'm relatively new to this site, so not sure the etiquette on criticism tone/tactics) is that i disagree with the level of aggression and unforgivingness that you are bringing to this conversation. As someone who has introduced a lot of friends and family to veganism (not through direct advocacy), I think that if our end goal is getting more people to consume ethically, we need to provide people with safe spaces to share their journey and provide feedback in a constructive way. Constantly telling people to do better, and that their current practices are problematic, when they're actively trying to do grow and learn not be the best way to build resilient communities.

also, added an edit to my comment cuz i totally agree that the "no ethical consumption.." line is bs. I should have better articulated what i was trying to say there.

2

metocin wrote

I agree that my tone and attitude is not always the best. The thing is when I personally read essays or comments that are direct and aggressive, those are often the ones that change my mind. I know that is not the case for everyone, and probably not for most.

I think part of the reason I can be aggressive particular in this case is that I expect vegans to understand arguments about food related to ethics and sustainability, and that I shouldn't have to mince my words. However, people often will get defensive when you come at them like that and it's probably not the best approach in general.

4

Fool OP wrote

It did occur to me that I wasn't sure about availability of various ingredients, in different regions. I guess I am lucky to have availability of cashews grown in the region (under better labour conditions), but I understand the sentiment and will add an edit.

6

ziq wrote

i don't think you should edit. it's weird when ppl assume everyone is a western consumer and not using locally produced food. i get the same shit when i mention avocados even tho i grow them myself

5

metocin wrote

I think it's better to assume for the sake of spreading a message. The fact is there are millions of people consuming cashews and avocados that couldn't possibly grow them in their own bioregion.

It might be fine for you to consume avocados but it's completely unsustainable for myself and for many others on raddle so I think it's fair for me to speak up. You yourself are an advocate for eating as much locally grown/foraged foods as possible so wouldn't you support what I'm saying here, even if it doesn't apply to everyone?

Maybe I should add a line about how it pertains to people based on where they live but my point still stands I think.

1

rot wrote

this is how i make macaroni but i add some nutritional yeast sometimes

2