Submitted by crabs in Vegan (edited )

Bramble the Dog lived to 175 dog years on a Vegan diet. My dogs all eat cruelty free!

Not mentioned: Dogs eating non-scrap meat goods originates from the slaughter of “unneeded” horses after World War 1. Gross.

Edit: Always adopt.

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ruin wrote

Is it OK to own a dog?

Or any other “pet”?

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NeoliberalismKills wrote

Ideally? No. In a world where they exist we can kill them all or let them devastate local wild life as ferals. Spay and neuter all pets and in 30 years (at least for cats and dogs) problem solved.

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ruin wrote

Spay and neuter all pets

Is forced surgical sterilization of animals acceptable to vegans? It would seem rather inherently speciesist and violent wouldn’t it?

I’m asking these questions because I’m genuinely curious to as to the reasoning an absolutist moral vegan would apply to justifying (in their ideological structure) the concept of animals as pets. Where is the line drawn as to what is oppression and what is acceptable and who decides this (and how)?

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[deleted] wrote

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ruin wrote

We're bound to make decisions for the animals which we care for, since they don't have a "moral compass" or the ability to make decisions themselves.

I agree with this, but on practical terms rather than the humanist moral compass argument. I certainly feel responsible to make decisions for the animals (and children) in my life to the best of my ability.

Your second statement is similarly practical, but only because your valuation of utility rests on the concept of human/animal and human/nature duality that’s created the problem in the first place.

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[deleted] wrote

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ruin wrote

Of course.

By weighing the value of a life of a “domesticated” animal to be born against the destruction of “wildlife” is leaning on a duality of wild and natural and by extension the “human” and natural world.

I’m saying that this is a false dichotomy and choose to consider the planet and everything on it as an ecosystem. Dogs and cats (humans too) are wildlife just as cities and garbage are nature.

I’m not trying to argue against sterilization, we have our dogs and cats spayed and neutered. Sorry it came off that way. I was just thinking aloud trying to consider a more holistic and non speciesist solution and should have qualified my comment to reflect this.

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[deleted] wrote

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ruin wrote

That makes sense. I’m obviously no better.

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NeoliberalismKills wrote

I'm not a vegan moral absolutist (I'm not even vegan as of yet) but my opinion on the matter is it's a lesser of several evils. If animals shouldn't be domesticated, and they shouldn't, then any decision we make with them is already inherently ethically screwed. So what choice is the least bad is what is left.

Let them run free violates undomesticated native species. Killing them certainly seems like a greater infringement than spaying and neutering. But I'm certainly open to other interpretations.

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yam wrote

It's okay to have a dog friend.

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ruin wrote

Thanks. I have two dogs and don’t have any qualms.

Also, a small flock of sheep, couple goats, a few barn cats, and various chickens, ducks and turkeys we’ve been given that are living out their years at our place.

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yam wrote

Goats are the best.

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ruin wrote

They’re a lot of fun. Sheep are pretty cool too but ours are a semi feral breed and while they’ll follow me anywhere I go, they like to keep some personal space.

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crabs OP wrote

I feel other commenters have answered this question adequately however I’m more than happy to provide additional resources. Thank you for asking a question in good faith. :^)

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ruin wrote

Thank you. I try to avoid engaging with bad faith questions and responses as much as I’m able to.

I prefer to take people at their word and allow for differences to go unresolved. Much more enjoyable and beneficial way to spend ones time than name calling and moralizing.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

I was under the impression that diets without meat were injurious to domestic animals, but that could be totally without evidentiary basis. I haven't ever looked into it, because I've never wanted to domesticate an animal

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[deleted] wrote

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crabs OP wrote

There are vegan diets available for cats. They are processed in similar ways to current store bought kibble.

However - by and large - cats are obligate carnivores. Do not move a cat to a vegan diet without consulting with your veterinarian.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

I have no idea, is that true? What are dogs most closely related to anyway? Wolves? Are there vegetarian wolves?

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ruin wrote

Dogs, as other canids, are omnivorous opportunists and many species such as jackals and coyotes are more inclined to scavenge a variety of food than hunt live prey. The original cynics.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

Cool, I did not know

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existential1 wrote (edited )

I let my dog run around quite a bit when I had one and he only ate fresh fruit and grass. He was nerdy as shit though. Used to stay looking at bugs like a damn scientist.

EDIT: I fed him dog food back then as I was a kid and didnt control his diet. But when he was outside without a leash, he only went for fruit and grass.

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_caspar_ wrote

the recent wave of vegan proselytizing is getting stranger by the day.

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