crabs OP wrote
I buy local meets and have reusable straws in my drawer
exactly, defining yourself by a dietary choice is classic liberal banality.
i think u mad bc u have so little agency to define yourself as a person, that you condescend to others about a functionally irrelevant & aesthetic distinction in your consumerist life, ignoring the obvious complicity of vegan end-consumer diets in the same industrial complex which produces animal death. And now I have pointed that out. Oh no!
crabs OP wrote
vegans always want to mention the animals but what about my needs
/ooc you’re really good at this comrade keep it up
Eh, this is entirely not about the non-human, and truly about the emotional needs of the human. It's about the human drive to see oneself as a good person, within moral frameworks of our own creation, away and outside of the alienation of hierarchical systems.
But that's not how it works. Material conditions are driven by the hierarchical system, and any amount of individual voluntary choice within the confines of capitalism is not going to stop the industrial slaughter of animals.
It doesn't matter what we buy at the store, but whether we buy at the store.
By all means, support community agriculture which is less harmful to animals and the environment, which focuses on organic techniques and feeding the hungry and promoting a plant based diet. I've been tangentially and more substantially involved with that for about 10 years. But once you get onto this weird shit with neo-puritanism, you've lost me. It's like the tankie cults, I just want no part of this type of unpleasant and creepy self-righteousness. It's toxic
OK, are you joking/parodying, or not? Because you've just continued to post from the same questionable perspective outside of this thread too.
I suck local meets up through the reusable straws
crabs OP wrote (edited )
/ooc this roleplay thread is blowing up. thanks for participating everyone
edit: y’all made this the most commented post on this forum and I’ve only used raddle for 24 hours. Thank you for your support and keep eating cruelty free <33
[deleted] wrote (edited )
lmao you 100% played me
I'm going to guess that the clothes you wear don't exactly come from non-capitalist sources? Or the housing you reside in? or the education you received? or the books you read (though hopefully many of those actually do!)?
Our total consumption patterns have to change, but to some how take a high-road of contributing to the end of capitalism, saving humanity, whatever it is that you are aspiring for, by only focusing on one aspect of our consumption doesn't really solve much.
It has to change, we should move towards becoming vegan, but it isn't going to happen overnight - conversion/change is a process, not an event...
crabs OP wrote
maintaining the status quo lets me be as woke as possible
You are directing your Vegan Jihad towards a bunch of allies here..
Please take a step back, this is beginning to look like a petty argument involving ideological points that not make sense for a lot of users here.
Appealing to morals and etc will only distanciate any fruitful discussion
crabs OP wrote
I live in a food desert where cabbage is $30 a head
/ooc lmao too good man. that last bit had my sides in orbit. wish I could vote up more than once
crabs OP wrote
hello I want the world to change but I do not want to make the personal choices that make that happen
Personal choices don't make social change. Social relationships make social change.
Are they that distinct from one another? Aren't our personal choices connected to our social relationships and the kind of values that define our relationships with others?
I would say not inherently but they can if allowed.
celebratedrecluse wrote (edited )
No, they are not connected, let alone indistinguishable from each other. Not if they're truly personal choices like what you decide to eat from the supermarket, and other atomized cog-in-machine interactions like that.
The ubiquity of personal choices, separate from other constituted individuals, are something particular to the consumer culture under capitalism. You can certainly meld your personal consumer choices with your social relationships, but it will only be to the detriment and shallowness of those social relationships, which will increasingly be built upon fragile and infertile grounds.
Personal choices which aren't reliant on the context of capitalism, aren't really good grounds for social connection on any scale, because to the degree they are divorced from capitalism they are divorced from socioeconomics in general. In which case, they are not relevant for social relationships that can scale enough to be relevant, in my analysis.
Collective choices, however, are an entirely different beast; unfortunately, they require a different social and economic context than many of us have, in order to be possible.
Thinking you can skip the process of making that context for collectivity to exist, is one of the key trademarks of liberalism.
If you are creating that context through your autonomous choices, it is no longer a personal choice, but rather a contribution to a collective context for the making of collective choices. These are almost always, done with other people rather than on one's complete isolated self.
By definition, personal choices are individual, and not social, so they cannot really overlap with social relationships and therefore do not really impact social change processes except insofar as these processes reduce the capacity for social relationships and social change.
Thanks for this argument - I fully agree. I was somehow imagining "personal choices" outside of consumeristic capitalism and that was the wrong path to go down...
I don't really think one's diet says anything about the quality of one's politics. There are plenty of terrible people and bad movements of people, who have associated themselves with alternative diets as a way to signify purity and reify their distinctive social formation. There are also plenty of people I have affinity with, who do not share my diet.