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7

Brick wrote (edited )

Good reddit comment I saw:

Aside from punching down at non binary people she was also punching down on non “passing” trans people. It was pretty depressing seeing someone who said they’d been convinced to repress and not transition as they thought they’d do harm to “real” trans people because of that video.

It’s also rather annoying how cultish her fanbase is and how they refuse to acknowledge she did anything harmful.

They've even been banning people from the contrapoints subreddit for objecting to that video.

4

Freux wrote

I remember one of her video, I think it was before her transition where they said something about how rioting was bad. That's when I lost interest but she had a good one about white supremacy some months? ago.

There is stuff she says that feel wrong but I get confuse in my thoughts trying to make sense of it, so clearly I need to read more on the subject. What was that book (essay?) that u/Tequila_Wolf (I think) mentioned a few times, it was like 'Badam' or something. If someone knows wtf I'm talking about, let me know!

3

ziq wrote

Keep punching down, Natalie. You're rapidly losing your radical audience.

4

ConquestOfToast wrote

I don't rely on her for radical politics, but her videos about her internal struggles and experiences could have been ripped from my own life. Honestly like I'm not going to say that some of her stuff isn't problematic but most of this bullshit just kinda looks like another attempt to tell a trans woman to shut the fuck up about her experiences.

2

ConquestOfToast wrote

Honestly. Her experience could be my experience. I get she made a snafu in how she referred to enby folks, but like I felt that it was pretty clear she was just trying portray her internal struggles as a trans woman. Like honestly, I've had that exact fucking conversation in my head and it's still an ongoing one. Maybe I'm fucking obtuse, but that video genuinely helped to identify some of the internal turmoil I was dealing with.

5

GaldraChevaliere wrote

It's cool if she's relatable to you. But mostly, she makes me very, very tired and like, I can't really forgive her pulling the truscum shit she did, and in general her politics just kind of remind me of comparatively well off liberal trans women I know in my own circles that just, well, exhaust me. Listening to Contra is like listening to my bourgie friend who sticks her head in the sand every time you say anything that could threaten the bubble she knowingly isolates herself in, always so sad about what's going on around her but never deciding to really act on those feelings. And like, I don't like popping her bubble because it's cruel, but I still don't want to be around her much because of it.

Contra and I don't really have any shared experiences that aren't shared by all transfems and the way we both deal with alienation is so utterly different that I'm sure we'd strangle eachother if we met. I can't ID with the whole 'former straight boy' experience because while I dislike the idea that I was always a girl or whatever since that always seemed like an essentialist cop-out, being a Not-Man shaped my life from early childhood onward. She's not relatable to me, she just feels like some stranger talking over me and asserting her experiences as some kind of default, willing to throw me to the wolves if it means a little more acceptance for her. I wouldn't call what she did a 'snafu', I'd call it a betrayal if I thought she really stood for anything but herself in the first place.

2

ConquestOfToast wrote

I don't think I'm making myself clear. Like I don't agree with Natalie. I came out with very different answers to the questions she posted in the aesthetic. My presentation is hyperfemme, but I'm also that bitch at the punk bar slamming shots with other transfemmes while screaming "to all the beautiful tranny faggots" in unison. Like I don't want to assimilate, that's fucking boring, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have the same internal conversation that Natalie has, I think that video wasn't meant to be educational, it was a snapshot of a trans woman trying to set realistic priorities concerning her safety and expression. That's a tough internal conversation to have, and no amount of theory is going to give you an easy answer. Truth be told the language for that kind of intentional identity construction doesn't exist at least as far as I've seen, so we just muddle through it and it's inevitably going to be problematic because in the context of our society "we're" problematic. Like I'm not going to defend the truscumy bullshit but when I see things like this, transfemmes struggling to contextualize themselves in a useful way, and only to see others just fucking nitpick nitpick nitpick every little thing, and as long as it's been going on, it screams transmisogyny to me. Like I like her videos, rarely agree with them, and at the risk of being problematic myself, Natalies not that important to have gotten the response she's gotten. I don't know what the hell it is about her that's caused folks to fixate on her, but its borderline abusive at this point.

2

GaldraChevaliere wrote

The main thing I disagree with you on is like, her relative 'importance'. Look at assholes like Mouse. Straight people eat her content up because in a large way she tries to make her appeals to them, and does so in ways that kick down at other trans folk. I don't think it's abusive for trans women including enby femmes to criticize her when she fucks up, being trans isn't a moral category that makes her not responsible for things she says and does and it's not nitpicking to say she did something fucked up when she hit first. She's definitely not Blaire White or something, but she's very much an Andrea Long Chu in a lot of ways and that doesn't sit right with me.

As a trans woman, I have the right to criticize how she goes about those things when she's held up in the public eye as the left-wing token tranny because breeders have no concept of LGBT folk as discrete individuals who just like, exist for themselves and not for a movement. Where I draw the line is with those same breeders bringing her mistakes up for woke points when they have no fucking idea what any of our experiences are like, yours or mine or hers.

I don't think you agree with her, I'm trying to articulate my own reasons for my discomfort and aggravation towards her and towards a lot of trans people in media in general. I didn't ask her to represent me any more than I asked for White or Chu or Jenner. But the things she says and does will impact me anyway, because cis people will take their cues on how to act around me from her. I can be pissed at her failings in that regard and still respect her autonomy and right to feel and relate to herself the way that she does.

2

ConquestOfToast wrote

That was my misunderstanding you're totally right. My bad I read into what you said too much and you're right.

1

kore wrote

Yeah she needs to go way further into this. Her videos are sort of tanking in quality, feels like she just wants to make relatable content. If you pass 100% your "transness" or "queerness" disappears from your perceived identity. why would you even want this? Being queer is about forcing people to confront gender. If you're trying to go stealth you're assimilating. Queerness demands the opposite.

3

GaldraChevaliere wrote

Being open isn't something trans folk can always do though, not safely. Trans women shouldn't be punished for stealth, because it's so often necessary to our survival. I'm open because I can get away with it, I'm already the slutty vagrant trap anarchist your father warned you about. My girlfriend's stealth because she could lose her job and her family's support is tenuous and conditional at best. I'm really against Contra's assimilationist politics because they're privileged, badly thought out and hurt us all in the long term, but I think it was ConquestOfToast who brought up that it's not fair to police trans women both for hyperfemininity and for not being 'radical kweer' enough, something almost always done by cis and transmasc people who don't face the same risks if they're clocked.

2

kore wrote

ok, thanks for reining me in. i totally agree with you but there is a huuuuuge gap between "hyperfeminine stealth" and "slutty vagrant trap anarchist." I dress very plainly. Perhaps "tomboy" is a good descriptor. Outwardly, I just look like some grimy dude with particularly fair features. I don't feel that my queerness manifests itself in my appearance.

1

GaldraChevaliere wrote

There's definitely that gap and a lot of room within it, and I think placing yourself anywhere in that gap that's comfortable for you is completely valid. When I described myself like that, I was mostly describing my demeanor. I'm aggressive about my beliefs, sexually open and next friday's gonna be the first time in my life I'm actually looking at any kind of real permanence. My girlfriend can't always safely express herself like that though. She has to stay closer to the hyperfeminine side of that because she stands to lose more than I do if she's clocked by the wrong people. What I'm trying to say is like, presentation-wise there's no 'wrong' way to do gender. Only that for some people their options are more limited.