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edmund_the_destroyer wrote

I'm not trying to weigh in, sorry. I'm just asking because I'm curious.

What you and others wrote all makes sense. Again, I'm sorry if I caused distress with the question.


GaldraChevaliere wrote

You didn't cause distress, it's just The Annoying Thing that cis people do where instead of just asking us what we think about something, they make a harmful assumption based in their feelings about something and run with it like it's fact. You certainly don't mean any harm, but a lot of the dangers and barriers we face come from nearly every cis person in the world, including our LG 'allies', overreaching and trying to speak for us or about us and stifling our voices when we contradict them. Also, from this point out I'm going to clarify that any 'you' is the royal you, directed at cis people and especially cishet men.

There's also a lovely bit of freudian psuedopsychology that TERFs especially like to push called 'autogynephilia', which is a way for them to try to further pathologize trans women while still getting to paint us as dangerous to cis women (which I've always found hysterical, I've been with exactly one cis lesbian or bisexual who didn't use me for sex or try to physically or emotionally harm me on a routine basis) under the guise of 'science' to make it palatable to spineless liberals. The argument goes that trans women are just males who have sexualized female secondary characteristics to the extent of physically altering themselves to adopt them for sexual gratification, or as a mating strategy to attract either unsuspecting straight men or lesbians.

Essentially, whether breeders or fags or dykes, cis people make everything about themselves and that means at best we're pushed to the margins economically and socially. At worst, and in the current state of things, we're regularly murdered, starved, evicted, mutilated or raped without any kind of recourse because ultimately your kind secretly want to fuck us and can't deal with it like adults. So you make up shit to justify your simultaneous revulsion and obsession with our bodies that lets you have your cake and eat it too, and we exist in this liminal space where our worth in society is determined solely by how much we resemble you and if your desire to fuck us outweighs your desire to exterminate us.


edmund_the_destroyer wrote

Thanks again for explaining.

I should have phrased my original question more carefully. I wasn't trying to establish any standards or "shoulds", so to speak. I was just curious, without an agenda to advance.

My partner and I have told our kids we accept their sexual identity no matter what it is, and we expect them to do the same for others. But I guess I should take things further and teach them about the specific persecutions trans people face, some even from within the GLB community, and why they are incorrect.

As a former spineless liberal - though never allied with the TERFs - my only defense is "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity".


2145 wrote

There's no question that your intention here was good, I think it's primarily your approach people take issue with. This might not be what you meant by it, but the initial post kind of came off like you thought you had come up with the cure for dysphoria and that cure was "boobs are a social construct", which feels kind of akin to telling a gay person that orientation is a spook and that if they just start being straight all their problems would be solved.

That being said, your openness to criticism both in the OP and the replies goes a long way.


GaldraChevaliere wrote

The best thing to teach your kids is to just treat us how they'd want to be treated. If there's a trans kid in their class or that they play with, teach them to be kind and to ask them how they feel about it. It would've meant a lot to me as a kid if someone ever just wanted to hang out without pushing me to fit their expectations. I probably would've gotten to keep my long hair.

I appreciate that you're genuinely trying to learn, and I'm not trying to jump down your throat personally for it. If you want to ask questions, absolutely go for it. Just keep in mind that most of us are very, very tired.