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celebratedrecluse wrote

The western chauvanists, they fetishize medieval Europe and its old hierarchies. They are even worse than the liberal centrists, valorizing the Napoleonic era's illusions of meritocracy. Game of Thrones is an insidious propaganda, taking liberals who are enthralled with the vague idea of fantasy due to the mainstream success of more radical fantasy writers, the explosion of tabletop culture, and the film adapations of graphic novels, but who have no actual articulate political ideology-- and subtly encouraging their latent fascist tendencies, imbued in them from the dominant culture, and slowly inching them towards a more authoritarian and violent form of politics. If you consume enough of a type of media, to a certain extent it will transform your point of view, and even behavior/relationships, especially if you aren't aware that it is doing so.

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fnord wrote (edited )

Please take all of my internets.

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bloodrose wrote

If you consume enough of a type of media, to a certain extent it will transform your point of view, and even behavior/relationships, especially if you aren't aware that it is doing so.

I find this to be true in my own self. I pay attention to what I consume for this reason.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

I speak for the TV series on HBO, I have no knowledge of the GoT novels' relationship with gender politics or fascism. I am, however, inclined to give the author a bit of credit, because they explained the reason why they kill off so many characters as part of a committment to a realistic portrayal of war, which does not romanticize or gloss over how cruel and brutal it is by refusing to portray the death of major characters as an integral part of war narrative. That, as a literary decision, is commendable in an era of western history that has been dominated by an invisible "forever war", and is actually a radical position to take in that context, imo.

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selver wrote

It's been a while since I've read them, and I wasn't looking for it at the time, but the books gender politics weren't as bad. For example, Sansa wasn't raped by Ramsay in the book, and Ramsay's torture of Theon was far more disturbing than any sexual violence I can think of.

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selver wrote

Who are the successful more radical fantasy writers?

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Fossidarity wrote

Ursula K. Le Guin has some great fantasy, some books even have anarchist themes!

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selver wrote

Eh that's more science fiction than fantasy. SciFi has better politics.

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dice wrote

UKL did both

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Mustard wrote

she talks about this poetically in "the language of the night" . i kind of recall her writing somewhere in there that she was firstly and always a fantasy writer , or something like that. i think she relates it to feminism too

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TheLegendaryBirdMonster wrote

Margaret Killjoy writes fantasy (but modern time think) and is anarchist. I haven't read her books yet.

Terry Pratchett isn't too bad imo.

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Freux wrote

Steven Erikson is pretty damn good, no classic fantasy, no power status between genders and no good vs evil. I'm only 2 books in though so I can't speak for his entire work.

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selver wrote

Yeah I read the first one of that series and liked it. NK Jemisin is good too. They aren't really mainstream fantasy tho (or at least not something the average person would know like LotR or GoT).

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celebratedrecluse wrote

Oh, I was thinking of Tolkein, for example his work is really fundamental to overall trajectory of the fantasy genre in english speaking cultures imo

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selver wrote (edited )

I don't think Tolkein is more radical than GRRM at all. There were like 2 women in his entire series and a deeply reactionary race system. Their takes on power aren't substantially different either.

I enjoy fantasy, even GoT, but the politics are mostly shit.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

Yeah, I suppose I was looking with rose tinted glasses a bit. but there are radical fantasy writers and works, I'm just not really familiar myself

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Freux wrote

The books aren't that great on the matter either but the show take it to a whole another level since the beginning. Season 2 was when it got worst to the point of killing important women for no reason. Even Neil Marshall that directed on an episode in season 2 mentionned how much the producer were pieces of shit.

To go back to book's author, he's friendly with some quite shitty people but that's another story.

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hasbrochem wrote

from Daenerys’s rape by Khal Drogo in Thrones’ very first episode, to Cersei Lannister’s rape by her brother Jaime in its fourth season. For many fans, they'd had enough.

My breaking point had come a bit earlier, with the second season episode in which then-King Joffrey both ordered Sansa half-stripped and beaten, and then demanded at the point of a crossbow, that prostitutes bludgeon each other for his enjoyment. For me, those scenes made it clear that Thrones was a show willing to mount its action upon the stage of women’s bodies.

really, that first episode didn't paint it clearly enough? I mean it's good people are finally saying enough, but yeah...

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selver wrote

The show has really ruined the books for me. Zero excitement for the upcoming season or books at this point.

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