Submitted by Lettuce in TankiesGonnaTank (edited )
Comments
TheJawns wrote (edited )
That person is making a really good argument against "left unity"...
ziq wrote
It's amazing that those clowns still think that hexbear troll is me. I guess it's easier to attack a tankie posing as me than address my actual arguments.
itsalways1312somewhere wrote (edited )
I love "ziq" telling tankies that they're not real leftists. Anyone, who knows anything about you, knows "leftist" is a label you deeply care about.
ziq wrote
If they understood my positions, they very likely wouldn't be tankies. You have to be incredibly obtuse and prone to cult-like obedience to dear leader to be a tankie.
People who dedicate themselves to being subordinate to the party elite will never understand anarchy or wrap their heads around critiques of the fatalistic left/right paradigm.
ziq wrote
This is a useless definition of fascism. It describes basically any existing political-economic system. Even an anarchist system falls under it. Unless your anarchist system wouldn’t maintain a monopoly on political power, forcibly suppress people trying to destroy it, and not have control over industry and commerce?
I love how confidently ignorant someone can be. It's not my definition of fascism, it's the definition of fascism.
I’m just tired of fighting with anarchist comrades.
Yeah, no, someone who thinks "radical authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce" is an "anarchist system" is not my friend. I wouldn't even spit on you if you were on fire, intellectually bankrupt tankie shitlord.
Who else predicted db0 would set up shop in a red fash circlejerk after backstabbing raddle? Syndies are fucked.
ziq wrote
Seriously think about this for a second. A tankie is angry at me because I copy/pasted the definition of fascism and they liked the definition and aligned with it politically? Which was the whole point of my essay. Yikes.
Lettuce OP wrote
Yeah this thread is gold. It's very funny
anticistamines wrote
anarchist system
bruh
db0 wrote
Who else predicted db0 would set up shop in a red fash circlejerk after backstabbing raddle? Syndies are fucked.
I didn't though
ziq wrote
yes lemmy isn't made and controlled by tankies at all. my mistake
db0 wrote
The software is open source. Servers running it aren't controlled by tankies, anymore than every WordPress site is controlled by liberals.
ziq wrote
Wordpress isn't a political project. Its admins don't use it to spread genocide apologia.
[deleted] wrote
ziq wrote
both the devs are hardcore red fash. not tankies, literal red fash that spread larouchite literature
https://raddle.me/f/AskRaddle/120471/does-anyone-have-any-proof-of-the-lemmy-devs-being-tankies
https://raddle.me/f/lobby/88428/so-the-dengist-who-made-lemmy-has-announced-raddle-isn-t-an
https://raddle.me/f/lobby/162199/raddle-is-toxic-lets-go-lemmy
itsalways1312somewhere wrote
The devs are the admins of lemmygrad.ml
db0 wrote
lemmy as a software isn't a political project either. Or if it is a political project because its devs are MLs, then Wordpress is a political project because its devs are liberals
mima wrote
Was Wordpress created because the dev was pissed off by the existence of a blogging software created by anarchists and libertarian socialists, and wanted people to turn away from that with some JS-bloated as fuck, security-unaware software of their own? No? Then shut the fuck up with that shit-ass analogy.
db0 wrote
Fuck you, I won't do what you told me!
ziq wrote
Ziq is one of those anti-civilization “”“anarchists”“” seeking some kind of reactionary return to pre-industrial or even pre-“civilizational” society
Complete misunderstanding of what anti-civ is, which is completely on note for a tankie or one of their anarcho-tankie comrades. A critique, not a program.
You can even go on their blog (raddle) and see them shitting on anarchists for believing a better world is possible.
Never happened. And how is raddle a blog but not lemmy when lemmy is literally a raddle clone?
building their ideal world in the “deserts” left behind.
Can you stop projecting your utopian dystopian world building onto me for one second? No? Yeah, didn't think so since your idea of radical action is murdering Ukrainian peasants who don't want to ship their grain off to Russia and watch everyone around them starve.
subrosa wrote
Ziq is one of those anti-civilization “”“anarchists”“” seeking some kind of reactionary return to pre-industrial or even pre-“civilizational” society
Complete misunderstanding of what anti-civ is, which is completely on note for a tankie or one of their anarcho-tankie comrades. A critique, not a program.
Minor point but... Hell, even when it's not just "a critique, not a program", anti-civ anarchists envisioning elements of pre-industrial or pre-civilizational society as desirable possibilities for the future can only be deemed "reactionary" when the base assumption is that current developments are largely "progressive". An assumption that makes sense in the Marxist teleology of capitalism and increasing industrialization as necessary for us to eventually (in the forever distant future) reach communism. But it doesn't make much sense elsewhere.
ziq wrote (edited )
That’s pretty amusing. I was told similar things for making a larger /r/traa replacement than them within five days. Their site is just janky, impressive considering how jank Lemmy is at times
Yeah I've never spoken to you in my life and couldn't care less what lemmy forum you made. Is everyone on that site a bald-faced liar?
My beef with db0 isn't that he directed his userbase to lemmy (completely expect a syndie to become a cog in a redfash machine), it's that he attacked raddle in his announcement and called it not a viable alternative because registrations were temporarily closed because lemmy was DDOSING us at the time, while they were lobbying him to move f/piracy there.
Guy doesn't even know he was clowned by his tankie comrades.
itsalways1312somewhere wrote
What's with all the an-synd slander? It's a bit antiquated, sure, but I'd wager most an-synds are cool people. I've actually thought about joining the local an-synd union.
ziq wrote
they have zero analysis of authority and are workerist af, also very pro-democracy and tend to be incredibly patriarchal in my experience. consistently the most uninformed and conservative anarchists you'll find
ziq wrote
basically the bureaucrat class in anarchy world (it's no coincidence that r/metanarchism was started by db0)
notabaldfacedliarlol wrote (edited )
Yeah I've never spoken to you in my life and couldn't care less what lemmy forum you made. Is everyone on that site a bald-faced liar?
i responded to it here, i wasnt aware that account wasnt you and have notified the admins. https://hexbear.net/comment/4271654
its uncharitable to read between lines and go straight to calling names. i wasnt referring to you, but to someone posting on a third party trans space (reddit or something else, so i used they, not recalling their pronouns or even the place it was posted on). i also cant help but find it funny that you call me a liar, while acknowledging that someone else clearly has it out for you and is impersonating you. could be some people are stirring things up on purpose.
i would like to use this time to talk about cultivating trans spaces, i do think the fediverse has an edge because it inherently makes other people aware of different sites. hexbear and blahaj, in that order (and largely due to size), have the largest concentrations of trans users on the fediverse. hexbear has about 30-40% of its users label themselves as trans, and over 50% of the admins and mods are trans out of 30+ people. specific features help boost this rate (incl. pronoun selection near usernames, its an easy in when comparing alternatives). i think there is still room for innovating to drag lgbt people to new platforms. at this point im noticing that hexbear has entered a threshold in the trans community, some of my contacts in other countries are mentioning it even when i didnt share hexbear to them. the trans community is pretty tight knit so i guess it shouldnt be surprising, so it seems after a certain point things speak for themselves.
i also value that this site exists, i think its important that the trans community moves away from corporate social media providers. these corporations have their fingers in multiple genocides at this point, no need to tempt them. i dont mean to insult by calling the site jank, its kinda just how these smaller platforms are, and i think the first time i looked around here a long time ago it was in a very rudimentary state. some of the ip logging this site does is concerning to me, though, from a trans community safety perspective.
ziq wrote
I mean you're in there happily participating in the circlejerk with people who are spreading all kinds of lies about me, because I dared to paste the definition of fascism and they realized they like fascism.
first time i looked around here a long time ago
7 years ago? Hasn't changed much at all since then.
some of the ip logging this site does is concerning to me, though, from a trans community safety perspective.
What IP logging? Stop spreading smears. We have our server set to automatically purge new account IPs from the system after 7 days, and never log the IPs of whitelisted accounts (which now includes you btw). See what I mean about lemmy people and the lies? Damn.
forgotmypasswordlol wrote
at this point you might notice i have a pretty severe issue with forgetting specifics. forgot my password lmao
I mean you're in there happily participating in the circlejerk with people who are spreading all kinds of lies about me, because I dared to paste the definition of fascism and they realized they like fascism.
everyones in their own special jerk-safe zone these days. what was the thing you pasted? i didnt see it
What IP logging? Stop spreading smears. We have our server set to automatically purge new account IPs from the system after 7 days, and never log the IPs of whitelisted accounts (which now includes you btw). See what I mean about lemmy people and the lies? Damn.
this is by definition ip logging
7 years ago? Hasn't changed much at all since then.
im old as fuck dont rub it in, im pretty sure i was one of the first visitors to this site, it was just you and a handful of people, way less than now. i dig around places all the time to try to make new trans friends
i dont really get why youre trying to be so combative, i was hoping for a more interesting conversation
ziq wrote (edited )
No, that's not IP logging. Any server by default logs IPs, so we have a cronjob in place to override that behavior and purge IPs from the system, when on any other site they're stored forever. We also have an .onion for even more anonymity, which almost no other forums do. Imagine using lemmy and accusing raddle of not being secure when lemmy not only stores everything you say forever, but also pushes it to 1000 other servers.
edit: and i'm combative because I'm sick of being smeared by lemmyites
itsalways1312somewhere wrote
Large concentration of trans people on hexbear just goes to show that not all queer people are cool people, and we're not automatically going to have anything more in common just by sharing a part of our identity. I don't think trans tankies are any better than cis tankies.
ziq wrote
they're worse because they should know better than to do around the clock propaganda for authoritarian homophobic states
most people have no authority-consciousness but marginalized people absolutely do, and yet some of us choose to use that consciousness to push for more authority, convinced stalin 2.0 is going to liberate us. it's obscene
db0 wrote
Guy doesn't even know he was clowned by his tankie comrades.
If you think I consider tankies my comrades, you haven't been paying attention.
it's that he attacked raddle in his announcement and called it not a viable alternative because registrations were temporarily closed because lemmy was DDOSING us at the time, while they were lobbying him to move f/piracy there.
That's not what happened. Nobody lobbied me. I didn't even know about lemmy before I started looking for an alternative because raddle was locked down for months. You can't just make up shit.
Here's the exact announcement: https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/rr5iu9/a_change_in_fallback/ I didn't even talk shit about raddle and I kept it as a secondary fallback.
You're acting extremely entitled here and spreading disinfo because of hurt feelings.
ziq wrote (edited )
If you think I consider tankies my comrades, you haven't been paying attention.
yea I don't hang around on tankie platforms like you, you're right
edit: ok I'm in a bad mood because my car just got partially buried in a landslide and i spent all night and day digging it out. shouldn't be so snarky, i take this part back. I know you don't like tankies, but that's besides the point - when you move into their building and open up a wing of their project, you're amplifying their toxic cultish ideology whether you intend to or not. I bet thousands of people have become tankies in the past 3 years due to lemmy and its continued growth
That's not what happened. Nobody lobbied me.
I saw them lobby you with my own eyes on r/piracy. Telling you raddle has closed registrations and pleading with you to switch to lemmy, which you did. While they were DDOSing us. I didn't make up anything, my memory for these things is impeccable. You didn't even bother to talk to me to ask why we had closed registrations, just threw us under the bus.
You're acting extremely entitled here and spreading disinfo because of hurt feelings.
I'm not hurt, I don't give a shit about r/piracy, I just don't like people who do labor for tankies, working to amplify their projects, while claiming to be anti-authoritarians. I fucking hate tankies and their enablers. This isn't hurt feelings, it's pure disgust.
edit: this part I can't take back because it's really how I feel. I have very high standards of fellow anarchists
db0 wrote (edited )
Again, I don't hang out in tankie spaces. I made my own space. I run my own servers. I can put down tankies as much as I want and they can't do shit about it. Just check it the shit that's happened on the past week.
Just look at how many people are defederating from tankie spaces, they're not winning hearts and minds here. They can't even behave well towards anarchists who don't accept left unity.
I saw them lobby you with my own eyes on r/piracy. Telling you raddle has closed registrations and pleading with you to switch to lemmy, which you did.
Memories is a flawed construct. I don't remember it this way at all.
I also didn't throw anyone under the bus. I didn't say a single bad thing about raddle ever except that you had closed registrations. I even kept you as a fallback.
If you want to be anal about it, one could argue that in the end I "betrayed" both you and the "lemmy.ml" people since I decided to run my own server.
Once again, I'm not enabling tankies, but I also don't act like you and I disagree with you on federation. This is all it is.
ziq wrote
Again, I don't hang out in tankie spaces. I made my own space. I run my own servers.
but I see you talking to the tankie posing as me on tankie-hive hexbear, so that's demonstrably not true. You think because you used your own computer to log on, that means you're not there? you're not making any sense
Just look at how many people are defederating from tankie spaces, they're not winning hearts and minds here.
idk, I haven't kept up. they're defederating from lemmy.ml?
I also didn't throw anyone under the bus. I didn't say a single bad thing about raddle ever except that you had closed registrations.
Like I said, the thing that pissed me off was you told me we were replaced because our registrations were closed, thus making us "not viable". While we were dealing with lemmy constantly DDoSing us (and I'm pretty sure dessalines/parentis_shotgun was the one doing it because he was on a tear badmouthing raddle all over reddit while it was happening).
So you announced you're moving to lemmy.ml, while lemmy.ml had both a smear campaign and a sustained DDOS going against us in an attempt to erase us from the reddit-alternative conversation and make tankie lemmy.ml the new de facto standard.
Do you really expect me to be chill about that? I was furious. I see you collaborating with the tankies that were costing me money and constant sleepless nights, so obviously I'm not going to have anything nice to say to you.
db0 wrote (edited )
but I see you talking to the tankie posing as me on tankie-hive hexbear, so that's demonstrably not true. You think because you used your own computer to log on, that means you're not there? you're not making any sense
That's a different thing. I am talking about the OP you linked to. That lives in my server. I can simply use my account on my own server to talk on hexbear. That's what federation is about. If raddle supported federation, you would be able to speak as [email protected] inside hexbear. That wouldn't mean you are "enabling tankies". Me leaving a comment clearing some disinfo or defending myself in hexbear subs is not particularly problematic.
idk, I haven't kept up. they're defederating from lemmy.ml?
No, I have my own server in lemmy.dbzer0.com. I'm defederated from lemmygrad and a bunch of nazi and pedo instances. However there's plenty of liberal lemmy servers out there, most of which have also defederated from hexbear.
Do you really expect me to be chill about that? I was furious. I see you collaborating with the tankies that were costing me money and constant sleepless nights, so obviously I'm not going to have anything nice to say to you.
I'm sorry this happened to you, but I was not part of it. All I did is notice that the lemmy software fits our needs more than raddle and added it to the piracy fallbacks while also retaining raddle. But at the end of the day I decided to host my own server anyway. I didn't do anything to specifically spite you. I didn't have your insider info. I wasn't convinced by tankies. I wasn't trying to enable tankies.
All my actions since then have supported what I'm telling you. From me running my own instance explicitly preventing tankie subs, to me saying multiple times I have nothing against raddle, to me taking the whole hexbear on.
Fact of the matter is that I don't particularly owe anything to raddle or lemmy.ml. So this "betrayal" you are assigning to me is completely out of perspective.
itsalways1312somewhere wrote
I can put down tankies as much as I want and they can't do shit about it.
If you defederated from them or they defederated from you, your instance would be basically dead.
db0 wrote
What? lemmy.dbzer0.com defederating from hexbear wouldn't have any noticeable impact I think. The most active lemmy server is lemmy.world, which is very much not tankie.
itsalways1312somewhere wrote
There's also lemmy.ml with almost 2000 active monthly users out of 32k on the whole lemmy-verse
db0 wrote
Ye OK, but that's more like a generic instance with some tankie admins. They try to behave themselves to avoid driving all the liberals to lemmy.world. There's a reason why most instances don't have lemmy.ml blocked. But still, 6% of the monthly traffic would be annoying but not debilitating. But last time someone defederated from lemmy.dbzer0.com communities, their user base basically revolted and they added it back eventually.
itsalways1312somewhere wrote
There's a reason why most instances don't have lemmy.ml blocked
Yeah, the network effect. Your instance becomes less valuable as you defederate from popular instances. That's why lemmy is full of tankies and tankie enablers, because those who aren't tankies don't dare to block the tankies, because their userbase would revolt or move.
db0 wrote (edited )
The opposite. Lemmy.ml has tankies but it has way more libs, and tankies are controlling themselves in their interactions to avoid leading to lemmy.ml being widespead blocked like lemmygrad and hexbear. lemmygrad is run by the same people as lemmy.ml. If this wasn't the case, they wouldn't need to run 2 different instances. They understand perfectly the need to behave to find wide-spread acceptance.
A lot of communities have in fact moved to other instances as the primary, so that tankie admins don't have influence on the discussions.
The most extreme tankies are already defederated almost everywhere already.
ziq wrote
Tankies in left-unity mode are far more dangerous than tankies in FULLCOMMUNISM mode.
mima wrote
lemmy.dbzer0.com defederating from hexbear wouldn't have any noticeable impact I think
Yet you say in another thread:
Yes, I triggered the hexbears hard in other threads in the past week and they're still very salty about it so they're brigading hard.
Emphasis mine
If that's not "noticeable impact" idk what else is.
db0 wrote
The hexbears were buzzing in 3 threads specifically, because they brigaded them. Not because they're regular visitors to lemmy.dbzer0.com
Overall, the loss of hexbear would not be significant. In fact hexbear was not federated with anyone for the longest time and most people defederated immediately from them once they opened it.
mima wrote
because they brigaded them
So? That's pretty much enough reason for me to defederate from them if I ever operate a threadiverse instance. Any responsible admin would see that there's nothing to gain and ever more patience to lose in keeping the federation enabled with that instance which has a history of brigading other instances, and their admins doing as little as possible in bad faith to control them (because really, they want their tankie goons to do the dirty propaganda and harassment work for them)
Overall, the loss of hexbear would not be significant.
So you're gonna wait for them to harass (which they do btw) your users before you pull the plug. That just seems like shitty moderation to me.
The fact that you're comfortable with staying federated with this tankie instance that has for a very long time (back when they're still calling themselves chapo.chat) very hostile to Raddle and harassing us makes me understand why ziq says you're a tankie enabler.
db0 wrote (edited )
Mhm, and they call me "Wrecker" and "liberal" from the hexbear side. I prefer to keep communication channels open because even tankies can help criticize capitalism and point out bigotry. If hexbears start harassing random people based on their own tankie-takes, I will deal with them. This has not been the case until now.
mima wrote
because even tankies can help criticize capitalism and point out bigotry
lol
itsalways1312somewhere wrote (edited )
I think it's funny that the tankies were so bored without us, that they had to make an "anarchism" sub for them to play pretend in. It's almost like "debating the anarkiddies online" is the beginning and end of their praxis.
ziq wrote
nah, they also snitch on us to the cops at marches
Lettuce OP wrote
I honestly don't think it's that. I think there are many anarchists who genuinely believe in left unity. So I think many of the anarchists are genuine in their belief about anarchy. Case and point look at anark it zoe baker they are vastly more popular than raddle. I think Lemmy might bemore representative of people who identity as anarchist.
It was funny on bread tube I got called a tankies bc I didn't like anark. It was hilarious.
itsalways1312somewhere wrote
I know that most anarchists probably don't share all of their beliefs with raddle, I have my disagreements as well, but the people in this thread specifically are just tankies, I think.
Anark is btw. not a left unity guy at all. Not sure about Zoe.
From Anark I only watched "the state is counter revolutionary" and "left unity is a lie", which I thought were not bad, why do you not like him?
Lettuce OP wrote
I am aware anark isn't left unity but he is genuinely more unreasonable in the ways MLs but even more so. He doesn't really seem to disagree with ML Ideas. But more wants to distance himself from the USSR for optics reasons. Tho I could be wrong.
I was more saying most anarchists vary very much from raddle so I wouldn't be surprised if there were lots of left unity anarchists. Bad communication that I insinuated zoe or anark were left unity ppl.
Anark is just a carbon copy of book him. He just wants to organize a anarchist government and force peopem to live in an anarchist society. Which has basically all the down sides of Marxist leninists.
db0 wrote
I think you all are very misinformed about lemmy atm. This isn't an anarchist sub in a tankie space. This is an anarchist sub in an anarchist instance: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/anarchism
You can read that through lemmy.ml due to federation, but it's actually in lemmy.dbzer0.com.
Hexbear does have it's own anarchist sub, but it's only used by their dwindling local anarchists if at all. There's even more anarchists forums, such as the one on the solarpunk anarchist instance: https://slrpnk.net/c/anarchism which has hexbear and lemmygrad completely blocked.
TheJawns wrote
This isn't an anarchist sub in a tankie space
I mean, you say that, but you seem to be getting pretty hard ratio-ed by tankies in that thread...
db0 wrote (edited )
Yes, I triggered the hexbears hard in other threads in the past week and they're still very salty about it so they're brigading hard. Sadly most other instances have hexbear defederated so they don't even see the comments to reply. But you'll notice almost every comment not from hexbears or lemmy.ml tends to be supportive. Check my recent meta post to see what our actual userbase feels about me.
postleftpuppy wrote (edited )
Please do not use the term “lol cows”, It’s very uncomfortable to see that here. And stop trying to publicly shame people that are politely disagreeing with you.
SnowyKnave wrote (edited )
I think people publicly saying you want to murder millions warrants a public response.
Although I dont agree with comparing people to nonhuman animals or using animals as insults.
(Im not saying this out of hate or dislike of you. You are great!) (Lolcow was even worse than I thought it was didnt know)
anticistamines wrote
There's nothing polite about that thread on Lemmy, but you're right about "lol cow". It's a nasty term popularized by the likes of Kiwifarms.
ziq wrote
sorry, but tankies claiming anarchism is fascism isn't a mere polite disagreement and the people in that thread are outright slandering me, even claiming I want to do genocide, based on nothing but strawmen they made up. I'm glad OP is sticking up for me by posting this.
the whole point of this forum is to point to ridiculous falsehoods tankies say. I get that you don't like conflict, because of your mental health, but just block the forums (click "hide this forum" in the sidebar) that are for venting frustration rather than complaining that they're being used for their intended purpose.
you can't expect everyone else to stop venting our frustrations (which we need to do for our own mental health in this ridiculous hellworld) because it upsets you, that's not fair.
the same goes for telling me not to tell someone off for breaking the ToS the other day in case they're suicidal. A forum needs to be moderated to protect everyone's mental health. If people would have a mental breakdown from being told that what they're saying is bigoted or otherwise toxic, they shouldn't be on an internet forum. I need to be able to uphold the ToS and take action against people who are breaking it, whether it be a warning or a ban. And I need to outline exactly why the action is being taken, or they'll just repeat the behaviour.
I do agree that lolcow is probably not a good word to use on raddle. I'm not really sure of its history but I imagine it comes from the far right?
anticistamines wrote (edited )
I do agree that lolcow is probably not a good word to use on raddle. I'm not really sure of its history but I imagine it comes from the far right?
The most prominent users of the term are Kiwifarms, which, if you're unfamiliar, are a forum for collecting examples of "cows" to "milk lols" from. Which basically means queer people, neurodivergent people, people of color, etc. There are multiple examples of them harassing and driving people to suicide.
ziq wrote
I'm familiar. They doxxed me.
anticistamines wrote
Oh fuck, I'm so sorry to hear that.
SnowyKnave wrote
Thats more gross than I thought it would be. Its really horrible. :(
TheJawns wrote
People openly agreeing with fascist values is hardly "people politely disagreeing"...
Lettuce OP wrote
Anarcho maoists rise up!
https://lemmy.ml/comment/5819720
Ziq wants to murder billions of people
https://lemmy.ml/comment/5819987
(Anticiv) a kind of radical doomerism with politically inert and fed characteristics. .
https://lemmy.ml/comment/5824156