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6

zod wrote

The 63 million Americans who voted for him. Most of them white people (58% of all white people). In comparison, only 8% of black people voted for the fascist ticket.

3

tlckl wrote

Pure liberalism. These are not the ones to blame.

The people who should be blamed is the etablishment, shitty system, poor choices (the system is undemocratic), propaganda through media, education, etc.

While almost all Trump's voters holds some sort of racist opinions, I think that these are really just an reaction to the material conditions. In particular, racist propaganda is a perfect way to kill revolutionary spirit in the working class, by dividing groups.

Their concerns, particularly economic (and that is what it comes down to: for example, the fear of immigrants is because they think they're stealing jobs etc.), are real, but there solutions are trash; they are built upon lies which the elites, the media, and so on has pushed for 100s of years.

People react based on their material conditions. Racism is an irrational response, but it is a response to economic issues. It is a response manufactored by the people in power, because it's simple, easy to sell, and incredibly non-damaging for the powers, as it's pretty much all-white.

Not to say that he doesn't have fascist backers. He has many, indeed, and he refused to disavow them on multiple occasions, but they don't make up the majority.

3

Defasher wrote (edited )

The people of a society hold up the establishment, why shouldn't they be blamed? Voting for Trump means you've directly acted in making the world a worse place. The American people are not blameless for the crimes of their leaders. They knew exactly what they were doing when they voted for him.

3

tlckl wrote (edited )

Well, yeah, they did, but not everything you do is really done rationally. You should check out "Manufactoring Consent" by Chomsky. He speaks about this, how the masses can be manipulated and played by those in power.

2

Defasher wrote (edited )

I think white America is very deliberate in maintaining their status quo. They make sure that minorities can't even vote, for instance:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/18/american-non-voters-election-donald-trump

2

lustysociety wrote (edited )

Quote: "For many of those voters, heading to a polling station for a few hours on a Tuesday is particularly difficult."

The USA is bad joke.
I wonder if I will ever read or hear something exceptionally good about the USA in my lifetime.
At least in France, Belgium and Germany, the elections are from Sunday morning to Sunday evening.
And if you have still no time, you can let another person vote for you if that person can show a signed proxy document and your invitation to vote.
And I never had to wait an hour or longer.

Quote: "In Florida, 21% of African Americans are not allowed to vote because of state felony laws; in Kentucky, the figure is 26%; in Tennessee, 21%; and in Virginia, it’s 22%."
How can so many African Americans have been criminals?
In Europe and several other countries there is universal suffrage.

3

______deleted_ wrote

That's interesting, because supposedly Trump won because he promised jobs and to make America great again i.e. he appealed to the poor. But minorities are overwhelmingly poorer than white people in America.

6

Defasher wrote

That's because the official line is bullshit. America didn't vote Trump in because of poverty. America voted Trump because America knows that "America first" is coded language for "White power" and white America is racist as shit. Just imo.

3

tlckl wrote

"America first" isn't a code. It's a dog whistle.

You have the people who voted Trump because of economic concerns. Even these often hold racist views, but they're a (wrong) response to the situation they're in. It's the response forced down their throats by those in power, because it's simple, not very abstract, easy to understand, and of course: benefits the powers.

Then you have all those racists, who have literally nothing to cry about.

It seems that people tend to say that it is either (A) entirely due to racism or (B) entirely due to economic anxiety, when it's really neither. It has to do with (A) being proposed as a solution to (B), an actual problem in the "fly-over states".

Historically and present, racism has been used as a tool of the bourgeoisie. It is a super smart way of killing revolutionary spirit among the working class, because nothing works better than dividing them, distracting from the real problems. By telling them that migrants or other races screw them over, they are less likely to think that the rich are those who are screwing them over.

2

Defasher wrote

But the people in America who are actually poor didn't vote for him. Middle class (and up) white people did.

2

tlckl wrote

They did too, yeah. Screw them.

I'm not even speaking about the average Trump votes, but just making it clear that not all Trump voters are actually bad people.

2

tlckl wrote

If you believe in materialism, then the blame lies entirely on the bourgeoisie. Racism is a orchestrated response to poor material conditions. It is an idea used to divide the working class and justify oppression.