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What I don't like about Marxism

Submitted by __deleted_ in Socialism

Marxism attempts to have it both ways. It's perfectly valid for Marxists to conclude that there is no reason to have independent managers and capital owners who direct the processes of production, because a less free, more unkind society is produced this way (since labor is inseparable from the human beings who do it) and there are perfectly good alternatives to this state of affairs.

But in addition to this, most Marxists also take a more hard-nosed economic approach and give arguments regarding production - surplus value, exploitation, the productive process, inputs, etc, following the ideas of classical economics.

There seems to be a lot of tension between those. The latter makes control over production seem somewhat arbitrary (there is no obvious reason to assign control to any one productive input, although plenty of ideologies have been founded over the years to do just that, from physiocrats to capitalists to many socialists) and undercuts the former by removing us from discussions of liberty & moral philosophy and brings us into discussions of means of production and monetary values. So I am always uncomfortable there, it feels like we are handing capitalists ammunition or at least choosing poor ground to fight battles on.

The dedication to constant economic growth inherent with Marxist ideology is problematic, and only leads to tyranny.

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mofongo wrote

But in addition to this, most Marxists also take a more hard-nosed economic approach and give arguments regarding production - surplus value, exploitation, the productive process, inputs, etc, following the ideas of classical economics.

The marxist position to this that it must be abolished, understanding how it function, what it depends on and what it arises from helps us prevent it from arising it again after the revolution.

(More in a moment)

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mofongo wrote

There seems to be a lot of tension between those. The latter makes control over production seem somewhat arbitrary (there is no obvious reason to assign control to any one productive input, although plenty of ideologies have been founded over the years to do just that, from physiocrats to capitalists to many socialists)

Is not arbitrary, production would be managed socially. That's the whole point of the revolution.

and undercuts the former by removing us from discussions of liberty & moral philosophy and brings us into discussions of means of production and monetary values.

Because that's irrelevant to the discussion, our current social/economical system was not develop out of a sense of liberty and morality; those topics arose out the changing economic system in order to justify it.

So I am always uncomfortable there, it feels like we are handing capitalists ammunition or at least choosing poor ground to fight battles on.

What ammunition? If you're talking about Capital you should know that it is one huge communist book that critiques capitalism.

I recommend you to read it in order to appease your doubts instead on depending what any self professed marxist says on a online board.

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coinphrase wrote

As in any arbitrary system "designed" by people who's goal is equality, it won't work. Nature will always prevail and nature is simple and doesn't care about lofty words written in an attempt to sound intellectual or fair. Nature takes its opposition and rips it to shreds. Marxism is the opposite of nature, it's fairy tale.

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SpiritOfTito wrote (edited )

opposite of nature

You know what nature is? Rape, murder, cannibalism, surgery without antibiotics and small pox

Given that we take decidely unnatural methods in everyday life - from locking up murderers and rapists to using contraception and anti biotic - you'd think moron liberals would quit using the "hooman nature" arguement.

But nah, we can legislate against murder, rape, even public urination and defecation, but we cant change our economic system because thats infallible human nature that cant be changed.

And capitalism isn't designed? You mean to say property rights, property taxes, corporate tax rates, business taxes, corporate lobbying, wealth inheritance laws, the wealth of written laws defining an employee and employer are human nature? That they just existed in human nature and we simply came along and used these laws that nature bestowed on us.

Get the fuck out of here