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celebratedrecluse wrote

How is that not sad to you?

There are tragic aspects of the stories told, but that is far from the only side of any of these stories. This was, in fact, the central thesis of the article. Here it is, restated once again:

My point with all of this is not to dilute the vital conversation around sex work among those struggling to consistently feed themselves or find a couch to crash on. Rather, the fight to decriminalize and legitimize sex work as labor—strenuous, demanding, and undercompensated, to be exact—requires that we recognize it, as a central part of many women's experiences, is so many other things, too; a context in which women are surviving—and living.

I am from a country where sex work is legal, trust me, its not as rosy as you make it seem.

I am from a country where retail is legal, trust me, its not as rosy as you make it seem.

Okay, that was annoying. lol. but thats the thing...Its banal, because you could say that about...any profession, because generally speaking work isn't what we want to do. It's alienated labor, in one way or another. and just because its legal...i mean, thats like the bare minimum of protection, that its legal for you to work. thats an awful and ridiculous standard for whether a particular labor situation can be harmful to the workers or not. you wouldn't apply that to any other kind of work. it might be legal to work 15 hour shifts as a nurse but that doesnt mean its healthy or safe, nor does it mean that the same work in 6-9 hour shifts would be the same degree of destructive to the worker who does the shift.

So let me be clear, that's not what I'm talking about. Sex work should be decriminalized, obviously I support that, but if you ask me there should also be free associations among the workers, which share resources as appropriate and help keep each other safe & the value of the labor high. That's a much bigger goal than simply asking the state to fuck off-- ultimately, its about autonomy for the workers in a much broader sense, which will fundamentally transform the experience of doing sex work, make it less catering to the normative, and abolish the most exploitative situations altogether.

But fuck what I think should happen. Fundamentally, this is about empowering the workers to determine all this for themselves, and for people who aren't sex workers that means building respect for sex workers, and that includes recognizing the value and dignity of the work that they do as much as it does improving opportunities and lowering barriers for sex workers in a diversity of fields. In fact, you're not going to be able to do one without engaging meaningfully in the latter, and vice versa.

Try reading stuff properly instead of trying to feel offended.

what the are so condescending. even when i point out the flaws in your argument, you just get defensive and dont reconsider anything. whatever, suit yourself


Fry wrote (edited )

Whatever dude. I was focussing on that specific girl in that specific situation, not generalizing it. You are trying to find faults where there are none to be found, trying to put words in my mouth. I dont disagree with the "general theme" of the article. I'm just disgusted and saddened by the fact that this particular girl never got to live out her dream because of transphobia. Which is what I was addressing. I bet you're a lovely person to know in real life

SUMMARY: The sad part may not be the only important part in this article, but it is a part of it that got to me the most, as I stated in my first comment.


GaldraChevaliere moderator wrote

Recluse isn't a dude. Dunno why you're crying about how hard life must be for trans women when you won't make basic concessions to others' identities because they told you, very patiently, that you're wrong. We neither want nor need your misplaced, affected pity.


celebratedrecluse wrote

Sure, and I'm saying that's reductive, and basically effaces the point of the article. by reiterating the dominant narrative about sex work in this specific case-- that this sex worker is (primarily or wholly) a victim-- you have to ignore a lot of the parts of her story, which I'm sure is not really the takeaway she intended. That's the only reason I'm pushing back on what you said-- it's not that I am trying to make you feel bad, or insult you, or that I'm looking to be offended. Which, I will say, is pretty insulting, to basically invalidate my point without engaging with it. Don't you think I've engaged with your perspective a bit more than you have with mine?

Why do you think there might be this discrepancy between us, on who feels they have to make more effort to empathize with the other?

Whatever dude. I bet you're a lovely person to know in real life

I don't know, I think I'm okay. lol