Submitted by lettuceLeafer in Sex_Work

I Like to Think About Anarchist Solutions to Problems that Could be implemented in my Lifetime. Regarding crime there have been some pretty ingenious solutions for based criminals to be safer, evade law enforcement and decrease violence. For instance cyber drug markets are a great example of anti authoritarian solutions to keep everyone safer from drugs deals and drug users. I also I have theories on other avenues anarchists should work on from housing, giving away food and medical care.

But for a specific type of sex worker I honestly can't think of innovation. In this case I'm referring to the bread and butter of irl sex work those who work the streets. I'm excluded some irl sexworkers as their industry does keep them safer. sugar babying, high class irl sex work target at a small client base of rich people and irl high class sex workers who do lots of betting online for rich clients. While these still are dangerous industries they are not even close to the risk of danger from law enforcement, violent criminals and John's as the typical street walker.

This criminal avenue has not really inovated from much as is true for irl drugs dealers. This is true with all crime which is mostly in person with a large client base. Now there have been some solutions to this problem that are extremely problematic while progressive anarchist solutions are limited. As for the question of security brothels and pimps have been market solutions that are honestly really shit and often exchange one ris of violence for another rather than mitigating it.

Pimps and brothels work by ensuring John's pay the sex worker and either provide violent retribution if the sex worker becomes sexually assaulted or is on premise so someone can step in If a John does something not agreed to. This also had the benefit of dealing with mysoginists.

By this I mean shitty men think it's fine to attack women even if it displeases them. But if a male "owner" of the women steps in the mysogynist will find their violence unacceptable. A classic example is of at a party a woman is being harassed by a man. Despite the woman telling them to leave them alone the man persists. But a man realizing this happens pretends to be their boyfriend or brother who tells them to stop then the mysogynist persists or challenges the man's "ownership' of the women thru violence.

I mention this because brothels and pimps bring men into a women dominated industry and prevents the violence of johns by having the "owners" of women protect their "property" from John's violence. If this sounds patriarchal you are exactly right. Sex work is an area where patriarchy is often at full force and it's most despicable elements happen often.

I obviously hate this dynamic and think it's horrible but I would not by analyzing this industry correctly if I don't mention this patriarchal dynamic. Now I think brothels and John's have some benefits but are mostly negative and this is shown my how most sex workers don't want t use them. Brothel owners ad pimps reduce income, bring in more clients, reduce john violence but introduce pimp and brothel owner violence and make it easier for police to enslave sex workers.

Now there have been some ways sex workers have solved these problems without the horrible dynamic of pimps and brothels. For instance irl sex workers working as a group or two or more sex workers making sure they come home at night. And making lists of johns who do sexual assault and giving out info of what car they drive or what they look like.

Craiglist and a few other sites provided a method for sex workers to vet clients and advertise in the US until laws changes and they got shut down. Which was a massive hit to sex workers safety and pay. Now you could use the Tor relay to advertise sex work but it can't b anonymous due to the physical nature but it would allow sites to not be sized by the feds.

But this is a non solution as I can't see most johns doing the work of learning how to use tor when they want to buy services. So a clearner site in a jurisdiction that won't be sized could be a solution. Then getting the site popularized by social media, work of mouth between sex workers and John's and posters.

While this would help some in getting a larger client base and increasing sex worker pay it doesn't solve the major problem of violence.

Now I did think for some solutions but I don't like the a lot so this is why I'm asking raddle to see if others have better solutions. My thought process (now hear me out) was thinking of how to implement services of brothels and pimps in a non oppressive way and with increased benefits.

So for Brothels the solution would be a sex worker co ops. Where they all can do price fixing to not undercut each other, have a physical place to increase customers and decrease costs by not using motels. Then they could decrease violence by hiring someone to be a bouncer for sorts to pat down johns for weapons, hold payment in escrow to prevent sex workers from being denied payment and increase John's using the service as they will not be robbed either. This would also have the safety of sex workers as if a sexual assault would occur it would be noticable and have security to defend the sex worker from the violent John.

So we have payment security, ninhierarchal relationship with sex workers and brothel owners and as they are the brothel owners, safety due to having a workplace with security and increasing clientele and rates. This would work great in a free market but in reality such a brothel would be piss easy to shut down. And unlike most street walkers where cops have to catch them one at a time if one cop infiltrates they all get shut down and all get seriously increased charge of running a brothel rather than just prostitution. So this seems like a non solution to me.

Now there might be a legal loophole in some states that would allow sex workers to be naked doing nonsexual touching while the John jerks off. Now I would have to consult a lawyer to know if my reading if the law is accurate. Now this is ovi far less desirable for John's but it's legal which might make it worth their time and money. Now even if this would work there is always the chance the law changes in response to sex workers selling such a service. So nonsolution.

Now there could be a reformed pimping of sorts. A group for sex workers pay someone a flat fee or percentage to provide the service of betting Johns, collecting payment if a John skips out and disencentivising violence through retribution and keeping track of the sex workers to help make sure then get home after a shift. Tho an alternative is through economies of scale the sex workers all alternative if providing this service to each other.

While this is more likely to get away without being caught it doesn't do a great solution to the problem of violence.

So honestly I'm stumped as I can't think of much for non oppressive inovation to help this sect of irl sex workers. Anyone got any ideas?



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halfway_prince wrote

i think that the concept of alternative structures of organizing sex-work is certainly cool and exciting, but as with any movement toward liberation of a marginalized peoples (I always post this shit so i know people are going to get tired of it) alternatives need to be developed in conversation with the marginalized group. So the idea that a bunch of internet saviors can theorize the problems of the world's oldest profession away without input from actual sex workers is a little silly.

Now since i consistently get rebuked when raising this point and whether we like to admit it or not, this site does cater to some certain demographics, I can just adapt this position to say ... either directly include voices of the marginalized group you are saviorizing OR at least do some basic research to see if there are resources we can seek out to gain input from those voices. this also just allows us to have a slightly more interesting conversation since we can drag things out of the abstract.

Sooo, with that being said, here's a bunch of stuff i'd recommend you check out if you're interested in the idea of the post...

(and maybe you already have lettuce, but if so please credit sources!)

Sex worker co-ops:

Stuff written by sex-workers for sex workers:

This is by no means comprehensive. It really represents a few of the top hits when searching for stuff that has sex-worker voices centered in the conversation, and I have to add I only read a bit of each page.

One thing I think it's pretty interesting to also note is the industrial complex around sex-work advocacy that has emerged in recent years with countless non-profits and saviors trying to speak for and liberate these ~poor un-empowered women~.


lettuceLeafer OP wrote

WTF lol


halfway_prince wrote

idk this post legit stresses me out so much, so felt weird to not reply. I may be completely off base, but wanted to let the raddle gods decide.


halfway_prince wrote

Also the language of this post is kinda weirdly corporate...kinda reads like a techbro pitching the latest app to a business executive.

"let me show you how we can innovate away..... sexual.......wait for it......violence."


orange wrote

I don't have anything smart to add to this, but I do think about this topic quite a bit and you bring up many good ideas and points. In the far, distant, perfect future I'd definitely love to see a larger and more formal peer-network of sex workers watching each other's backs -- maybe like a professional association lol. Informal versions of this (like you mentioned: working at the same location together, sharing + adding to the blacklist of violent weirdos in the city) aren't that accessible anymore unless you have other fssw friends.


lettuceLeafer OP wrote

larger and more formal peer-network of sex workers watching each other's backs -- maybe like a professional association lol. Informal versions of this (like you mentioned: working at the same location together, sharing + adding to the blacklist of violent weirdos in the city) aren't that accessible anymore unless you have other fssw friends.

yeah for sure, tho its frustrating that I and the market as a whole seem to be a complete failure at making innovations in the sex work industry.


Richard_Cypher wrote

I don’t see the problem with tor. It’s as easy as an app on most phones these days even just to do something as similar to Escort Babylon. An John Babylon wouldn’t be a terrible idea either and honestly could flip the dynamic of it. Similar to the confirmation process the higher classes use from personal websites. John signs up. Answers required questions and goes through at least a screening process including photos video etc: describes what he’s looking for. From there it’s sifted through digitally and on the other side the working girl now can skim through the johns looking and engage the ones she’s most comfortable with and could add some desire which Johnny love’s instead of the whole “let’s get this over with. Also random thought but I feel a lot of street girls are heavily addicted. Not all of course but that breeds a whole different level of problems and desperation.

Anyhow just spitball ideas off the top.