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amongstclouds wrote

Individualism doesn't negate the collective, but the collective can erase individuals as history will show again and again and again. This doesn't mean we need to choose either between the encouragement of individual growth or for the good of the community because how do you even begin to do that without exploiting people in the process?

Every instance of alienation and it's effect on the society at large is still affecting Unique beings that are indeed manipulated by their environment, and also perform the manipulation simultaneously. Every interaction between two independent minds is important because without attempting to understand the relation between them how can we begin to really fix anything?

I'm just asking you to understand that logic has its pitfalls and to think that something is 100% one way is inherently oppressive. Human nature is just a convenient excuse for not really understanding our day-to-day interactions with each other and the world around us.

The mind likes to create its own little State with which to dictate what it wants everything to be. Liberation begins with you as the individual actively seeking to break old habits and form new connections with reality.

2

WindTalk wrote (edited )

I agree the whole framing is simplistic. You are raised dependent on your parents, if you can't see there is a path of individuality that requires you to be self-aware and break free from your parents language, thinking, teaching, religion, etc.

the collective can erase individuals as history will show again and again and again

That's how I see it too. Freedom and liberty don't have a great track record with humanity when it comes to spirituality movements and ideas. History shows again and again that people claimed that their view was for the entire planet, but once travel and telecommunications became standard - we found that ideas of spirituality were much more like languages - regional. Converting between spiritual systems has often proven both violent and crushing toward dissenting individuals. The most recent large-scale progress has been to identify violence itself as an objective to eliminate from group behaviors, but it surely has not been widely adopted by populations.