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gweur wrote

There's a reason why we don't hold children guilty of the crimes of their parents.

You are only accountable for you and what you do, for those who came before you there is no account to settle.

If those people feel like they want to personally attone, I don't understand that philosophy, bit if it helps them through the night then have at it.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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rot wrote

hot take:

Everyone should work towards equity and the elimination of white supremacy and race. Feel bad about your racist ancestors? Work against the system that continues to make race matter.

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gweur wrote

What ifism is an intellectually lazy form of argument, I can reciprocate,

What if you aren't?

Do you have stats and sources on how many white people are still benefiting and in which ways?

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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gweur wrote

I notice throughout your entire post you have assumed my ethnicity as white, rather than argue a position it is easier to argue a straw man. It's very easy to categorise, you are in danger of becoming that which you hate.

Its bound up in your language, where you continually categorise me as white. You cannot help yourself, the prejudiced never see themselves as prejudicial, they believe they are good and just.

Your entire premise is to assign all individuals group identities and deny them the agency of individuality. To assign not only a group but also group traits, responsibilities, guilt and duties. You feel white people should feel x, or act y or are ethically bound to feel z....................what if they don’t share your opinion of how they should feel? What if they view themselves as individuals and reject your group assignment?

58.2% of the prision population are white, according to BOP. https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_race.jsp. Which means the majority of the slave labour is white, you beneifit from that slave market too, what are you doing about it? Ask yourself this is a white person less likley to be part of this slave market because they are white or because they are statisically less likely to engage in criminality?

Black lives matter, yes they do, i agree. But as long as we ignore the fact that the single biggest killers of young black men are other young black men then we cant get anywhere. Black people are 6 to 8 times more likley to be the perpetrator or the victim of an interracial homicide (i.e. victim and perpetrator are the same race) than a white person, this goes someway to explaining the higher rate of incarceration among blacks. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

Can POC be responsible for their own lack of generational wealth, can they have the agency to change that, or do you beleive they are so incompitent they need to have it gifted to them?

I had a browse of your wiki, its just a hodge podge of unrelated articles. how about you link to sources for your argements rather than someting non-specific, as I have done above.

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gweur wrote

Do you always assume that anyone who disagrees with you must be white? Are you sure you are as free from prejudice and judgement as you believe you are?

If someone discusses a topic in a rational manner they must be defending white supremacy? Do you always slander and straw man people? I suppose if you are incapable of debate, then you must resort to dishonesty.

If you engage in avoidance tactics, how do you every expect to reach any form of commonality? If we cannot make sense of each other, then there is no communication or understanding between us!

Yes there is some racism with the justice system, however does that negate that black males are 6 to 8 times more likely to be the victim or the perpetrator of an interracial homicide than white males, have a look at the black interracial homicides compared to Asian interracial homicides, its fairly stark reading.

Can we agree that what’s predominantly killing young black men is not the police, its young black men. If we don’t acknowledge this, if we wilfully ignore it then how can we expect to drop the interracial homicide rate? How can we hope to stop black men from becoming both the perpetrators and the victims of homicide if we willingly misrepresent the problem.

If a subset of a group commit a specific crime at a rate 6-8 times greater than another subset of the same group, would you expect both subsets to undergo incarceration at the same rate? Of course you wouldn’t, you would expect the first group to be incarcerated at a much higher rate, about 6-8 times more than the second.

I know that this is unpleasant to hear, its unpalatable to think about. Facts really don’t care about anyone’s feelings, to have any hope of changing the circumstances we have to face up to the problem warts and all.

p.s I have already read The New Jim Crow, are you aware of the critisms of this work? I would refer you to the Law Professor James Forman Jr who gives an excellent refutation of the work. Before you pull out the race card it is worth noting that James Foreman is not white, i would encourage you to read his book Locking Up Our Own: Crime and Punishment in Black America if you havent done so already, as you clearly have no clue as to the reality of the situation we find ourselves in and why we ended up here.

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