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CaptainACAB wrote (edited )

That's a shaky subject, I have no reason to believe that Black gun owners will be recognized as "defending themselves" (whatever that looks like with a gun) in a court of law since the legal system is against us; and "overthrowing the current system" via armed warfare is a pipe dream even when talking about the Rightists who are heavily armed and bloodthirsty; and unlike them, we, as Black people, have no common political vision as to what would come after that.

I am in support of increased gun ownership among Black folk, but I won't hold my breath in waiting for such a thing being a catalyst for any meaningful change.

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CaptainACAB wrote

I think the best way for me to explain my position on the topic of Black gun ownership is that I personally support it, but that the mainstream culture of America does not, our court system is not ready for it, our media already eagerly goes out of its way to criminalize us, and cops are scared shitless of the very idea of an armed black person. None of these problems will be solved with a surge in an armed Black populace, but whether or not we'll find ourselves under increased repression as a result would be speculation, but history points to that being the case.

may help to arm persons of color for their safety and if they're able to use those weapons.

Use them for what exactly? Against whom? I find the the "self-defense" rhetoric of American gun culture to be uncompelling because it paints a vague picture of some looming threat that you absolutely have to be prepared for and you, if I recall correctly, aren't from the US, so I'm curious to know where you're coming from on this.

I won't be able to immediately respond to whatever reply you give to this comment, since I'm going to bed in a few minutes; but I'm looking forward to what you have to say, I don't discuss racial issues on here that often.

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deadresonance wrote

I wish it were more about violence, given the impending nature of that violence in our very near futures!

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deadresonance wrote

Your reservation is entirely warranted. The mode of production additionally ensures that it is white gun owners and the state which will have the most free access to ammunition-- a crucial problem for any gun club starter!

So, white supremacy will ensure even among radical leftists, that most of the gun club members and starters will be white. And that the right wing, rather than the left wing, will have most of the guns and ammo and trained shooters.

It's just not feasible to think of some kind of bolshevik "revolution" being possible, in any part of my country any way. But, there are some things that left, anarchist, queer, disabled, women, and Black gun owners can do to support political and pro-social activity in line with their shared values.

  1. Find appropriate venues to open carry in defense of social movements facing repression. That includes events, as well as marches, and other areas. Rather than defering to "organizers", I think you should think carefully about the places you decide to carry at, and make your own autonomous decision that is appropriate to the context you make that decision in. Specifically, it is best to carry at events that might conceivably go peacefully, except for excessive police violence. It is proven that police violence is aimed less at demonstrations with publicly open carrying gun owners present. Part of this is due to the confusion of correlation-causation and can be disregarded, but there is a real calculus in police decision making which is attested to in leaked documents that states decisions to use munitions enter into a command chain process where the presence of firearms can deter them from using munitions if fear for officer safety is sufficient. So, there is a reason this can be helpful, in certain contexts, if coordinated sufficiently between the autonomous actors.

  2. Run gun safety workshops, which train people specifically in marginalized communities to have the autonomy to exercise their rights. Fundraise for this purpose, and use the money to subsidize marginalized people in getting armed and certified appropriately for their jurisdiction.

  3. Create collective ammo buy groups, and shooting clubs, which are led by and safe for marginalized people of various backgrounds, affinities, and tendencies.

  4. Create shared armories, from vetted groups of keyholders which are knowing each other longer than at least 2 years in cooperation. These may have to be in private land in hidden locations, in case of civil unrest or other emergencies. Emphasize creating these networks within marginalized communities, to distribute resistance broadly in the event of crisis.

  5. Create education groups which train in guerilla tactics and general woodsmanship, and use airsoft weapons to train combat tactics. Use shooting clubs aforementioned, to vet participants.

There's many more ideas, you can come up with your own! By distributing power broadly in our society, we help create the world we wish to live in.

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CaptainACAB wrote

Well, you've given me some good responses to points that I haven't brought up (3 in particular is a decent solution to the problem of actually supplying ammunition to poorer folks), though my overall problem on gun ownership is more steeped in gun culture than anything else.

Gun culture on the right veers onto "Law & Order" bloodlust and vigilantism, which everyone here is obviously opposed to, so it's not really worth discussing beyond that.

Gun culture on the left seems, to me, to go in two different directions: the rhetoric from more naive and reckless leftists make it seem like they actually plan to attempt to overthrow the government (which I'm not opposed to on principle, I just see that avenue as doomed to both failure and mass death). On the other direction, and the one you seem to be on, is this attempt at "leveling the playing field" between Right-wing militias and an armed Left; which I think is a far better position than the other one, but it's still relies on this premise of "self-defense"; and I'm not going to pretend that the looming threat of armed Right-wingers isn't there because I'm not a cop-loving Democrat. My overall problem with Left gun culture is that it's concerned with self-defense, but limits itself to just...guns, which are useful, sure, but it strikes me as too narrow, because there are other means of self-defense that leftists use that are also effective.

Basically, guns are cool and all, but they can be impractical in certain situations and I feel like other methods of self-defense (and community defense for the more socially inclined) deserve more attention. It's a nitpicky and unnecessary problem that doesn't really warrant much response, but that's never stopped me before.

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CaptainACAB wrote

Use them against police and (other) white supremacists.

Yeah, I got what you mean; but, like, what would that look like? And what would be the repercussions of that be? We can look at how Reagan responded to armed Black Leftists with the Mulford act and to my knowledge, they were using guns as a show of intimidation in order to protect the Black community from police and white supremacists; shooting was presumably a last resort. So my question to you is what do you think we could learn from those events? I'm fond of the idea of decentralized support networks among marginalized communities, but given the complexities of the political landscape of identity and how atomized everyone is in the US, I don't think that that's something I'll see in my lifetime. In so far as actually using those guns (in this case, shooting a white supremacist), well...maybe that court case could be won if said white supremacist wasn't a cop, but otherwise...I don't see that happening; we can be falsely imprisoned for less. And, yes, perhaps someone could get away with not having to deal with court, but where do they go? Cop killers don't last long because cops really hate them and are pretty relentless in hunting them down. My only answer is that a network of people would be able to maybe help them escape, but again those don't really exist right now.

Me being not from the US may leave me unable to properly contribute to this issue but I do find this initiative interesting otherwise.

I don't think that that really matters, an outside perspective can be worthwhile.

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deadresonance wrote

No, it's really important what you brought up! I prefer the term community defense, which can be both armed and also use unconventional tools and weapons of various kinds. Having that study group that i mentioned in my last point, is crucial, for by studying previous guerilla efforts and these other, both new and old, both high and low tech tools, we become more effective insurgents and better participants in our own social movements.

Getting past the one-man-is-an-island macho bullshit, beyond the gun culture, is vital for an armed anarchist defense network.

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deadresonance wrote

The other issue, is that there is significant black gun ownership in USA, but that unfortunately a lot of time it ends up exacerbating violent crime within predominantly black communities. There's a reason that the CIA just handed out guns to the baby black mafia in Philly, they knew that adding guns to a volatile situation of poverty and block-by-block feuding would enhance white supremacist interests.

I think another great thing that armed (and unarmed) anarchists can do is to facilitate conflict resolution workshops and restorative justice efforts led by black people in their own communities. It is vital that any political armament campaign is rooted in deeper community work, addressing the maslow's pyramid of people's daily needs before adding something as volatile as firearms as an option in people's lives. For example, the stresses that many Black people go through on the daily in USA, I can't even imagine...but for many of various backgrounds, there's mental and emotional and social health questions, which have much greater urgency than access to firearms.

I facilitate a community health project which tries, not in the Black community but in my own social spaces, to address some of these issues with a mind towards getting us armed if and when people desire it.

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CaptainACAB wrote

If I still can't answer your question, I'm sorry but I don't really have any clear ideas for this.

It didn't in a matter that was concrete and immediately, but honestly, I'd be more concerned if these problems could be solved so easily and quickly or if you thought they could.

In any case, I wasn't expecting you to really have a concrete solution and it would really unfair to you and fucked up of me to expect one.

On a lighter note:

I don't know how this could turn out but to take the US down will require the world to lose faith in the US or something. They are losing faith in the US but not enough.

What the fuck is wrong with y'all??? What more does our shitty government have to do?!

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