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GaldraChevaliere wrote

Terfs actively go out of their way to accommodate/validate transmen because they're at their core chasers. Like, chasing and transphobia aren't even two sides of the same coin but the same Washington with a shit-eating grin. They don't actively target transmen because they want to fuck them and so make space for 'lesbians on T' or 'female-socialized men', and some Aidens buy into that and play along to get that terf pussy and be afforded opportunities to exercise transmisogyny while still having somewhere to run back to when we get sick of their shit. Transwomen do the same thing all the time with making excuses for 'trans-admirers' and the modern drag community.

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rot wrote

I always figured that they feared penises on some level. Male=misogynist, male=penis, penis=misogynist. They can't get past transwomen because they might have a penis and are therefore male and therefore a danger to women.

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GaldraChevaliere wrote

I try not to get too freudian with it, even if they're obsessed with Freud themselves. I think the real root of it is how many early terfs were explicitly connected to and had roots in the Church and how that essentially bled out into this tripartite view of an edenic time before men, and that's how they're viewing the situation with transwomen as essentially Eve figures come to fuck it all up for poor transmasc/cisfem Adam. Like, I definitely see them trying for that angle a lot, especially with the whole 'transwomens' bodies are literally a rape of femininity' rhetoric, but I feel like it's rooted most deeply in the reactionary forces that shaped early political lesbianism.

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dslinguist wrote

Ugh god drag. A bunch of cis dudes in caricatures of women and saying that they’re part of the queer community. Not to mention the ignorant assuming that’s what trans people look like.

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jonniedarc wrote

I think you're being really unfair and kind of homophobic here. Drag queens are foundational to the queer community, they've been participants since the beginning (there were tons of drag queens at Stonewall). You're talking about a community that is by definition gender non-conforming and typically gay. How are they not part of the community? Moreover, many drag queens and crossdressers are closeted transwomen exploring their gender identity in a way they can feel safe. I don't know why you would disrespect that.

A bunch of cis dudes in caricatures of women

I understand what you're saying but considering this is exactly the insult TERFs use against trans women generally, I think you need to realize that this whole line of argument is reductive and binarist as hell.

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dslinguist wrote

I apologise for coming across that way, I’ve just had a few bad experiences with people who crossdress/do drag who were cis-straight guys. That’s the experiences I’m coming from.

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jonniedarc wrote

That's totally fair, I've definitely known and heard of drag queens who are awful people (RuPaul comes to mind), and there is certainly misogyny worth criticizing in a lot of drag communities. But I think I'm a tad defensive of the whole concept and community because it was part of how I was able to discover the broader queer community.

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dslinguist wrote

That’s understandable. I was just venting my frustrations and past experiences, in the wrong way obviously.

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