cis out of the woods

Should I identify as queer?

Submitted by lachsarb in Queer (edited )

Without giving away too much detail, I can easily pass as a cishet male. But I don't feel like I really care about identifying with my gender assigned to me at birth, and my sexuality revolves more around biological sex rather than gender. So by definition I might be considered bi, even though I'm only interested in people who are biologically female or maybe intersex. I'm also questioning my romantic orientation which will probably take me years to understand.

I ask because I don't suffer from gender dysphoria, and I am unlikely to run into any issues because of whoever I may have a relationship with. I feel like even though by definition I could be considered queer, I don't want to take away from the struggles that other queer people go through. I have trans and gay friends who actually struggle because they are queer, whereas I don't.

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NOISEBOB wrote (edited )

Redacted

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tabby wrote (edited )

Sexual preference isn't just a genital preference or about "what's under the clothing". Gay men aren't just men with a penis preference; lesbians aren't women with a vagina preference; heterosexual people aren't just people who prefer people with the opposite genitals. People are sexed.

Don't know why saying "biologically female" is yikes. Female is a sex, and what else does sex have to do with other than biology (until you attach sex/gender roles to sexes)? In choosing a romantic and/or sexual partner, how is it "yikes" to have sex as a criterion unless you want to try to say that sexual orientation isn't real or valid?

Having a sexual orientation doesn't mean you choose anyone who aligns with your orientation indiscriminately. I very seriously doubt that OP only cares about "what's hidden under the clothing".

OP: don't think too hard about it. Go touch some grass. You're you. You're attracted to who you're attracted to. As to your question, no, you probably shouldn't identify as queer.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

Nah youre being transphobic. There are a lot of stuff that goes into attraction and none of the factors only apply to one sex. You're just spending your time defending ciehetero mythology.

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lachsarb OP wrote

Without any other context and following the apparent logic, just caring about if people are "biologically female," (yikes)

Never said anything about caring about specific groups of people. I care about everyone. And if you have a better term for "biologically female" I'm all ears, but I've never heard one before.

just caring about if people are "biologically female," (yikes) would mean that they don't care about if they're a cis woman or a trans man as long as their genital preference of having a vagina is fulfilled.

Yes. What's wrong with that?

Not a lot of room to claim you care about the person themselves and rather about what's hidden under the clothing.

In order for me to "care" about someone I have to want to fuck them? I'm trying to be as charitable to you as possible but I can't see how this is anything but wilful misreading on your part.

Check out the rules of this forum.

I already did before posting. All I said was that I don't feel a connection to my assigned gender identity, that I only wanna fuck people with vulvas, and that I'm questioning my romantic orientation.

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lachsarb OP wrote (edited )

"biological genders," is peak TERF-ery, but, sure.

I never said gender is biological. I said sex is biological, which it is by definition. And yes, TERFs have tried coopting gender abolition so they can instead rely on sex to invalidate trans people, which I disagree with.

For a moment, though do tell me how you're supposed to know if someone is "biologically" male/female without looking at genitals.

You can't know for sure. That's because "biological sex" -while revolving around biology- is essentially just a social construct.

I also know quite a LOT of heterosexual people that DO INDEED obsess over genitals and use that as the basis for disregarding the existence and validity of trans people.

Probably because they're transphobic.

I very seriously doubt that OP only cares about "what's hidden under the clothing".

So by definition I might be considered bi, even though I'm only interested in people who are biologically female or maybe intersex

I literally just said I'm only sexually interested in people who have vulvas. Again I ask, do you have to want to fuck someone in order to care about them?

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lachsarb OP wrote

When you espouse transphobic rhetoric, people will say something; whether it is intentional or not.

I never said anything transphobic. You were just reading into it too much, which is okay. Seems like you're still upset with me after you realized your mistake.

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tabby wrote

I don't even know what "biological genders" means. I'm talking about sexes, not genders.

You can generally, with exceptions (I can hear the "Gotcha!" now), tell what sex someone is just by looking by:

  • amount and location of hair growth;
  • height;
  • muscle mass;
  • voice pitch;
  • hip width;
  • facial bone structure;
  • fat distribution.

If this isn't the case, then what else does "passing" mean if not being perceived as the opposite sex due to changing some or all of the above characteristics by using hormones, medications, cosmetics, prosthetics, voice training, hair removal, and/or surgery?

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lachsarb OP wrote

I responded to your comments quote by quote and even provided sources to back up my understanding of gender and sex. If all you can do is call me TERF off of no basis, maybe you're in the wrong. (and that's okay, I could see from your perspective but I think I provided good clarification of what I meant, but still you hold the same position.)

I'll just have a laugh at this with my trans friends, who I very much care about. Sorry if I upset you but I don't think this was my wrongdoing.

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tabby wrote

What dogwhistle? That I think trans women are male, and trans men are female? I've made my thoughts on that abundantly clear. That's not a dogwhistle; that's a regular human whistle.

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tabby wrote (edited )

I don't understand how what I said could be construed as transphobic at all. All I contend is that there are two sexes, male and female (and a small percentage of intersex people), that sex can't be changed, and that trans men and trans women change gender but not sex. (It is their gender that is trans to their sex; otherwise, it makes no sense to even talk about cis and trans.) That some trans men and trans women find it upsetting that this is the case doesn't make it transphobic.

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lachsarb OP wrote

Do share real sources

I did. I cited the NIH, APA, CIHR, and Stanford.

And when I say sources I mean something more than a series of definitions to fit your confirmation bias.

I have no confirmation bias. You're the one arguing against yourself.

I'll save you some effort. I suppose intersex people don't exist, which is why cishets feel the need to forcibly change their bodies to continue their myth.

That very twitter post affirms everything I've been saying lmao. I even mentioned intersex people in my post. You even quoted me mentioning them, so I know you saw it. And as opposed to tweets, I can actually provide reputable sources backing up the claim that sex is not binary.

You're just strawmanning to such extremes that you literally post twitter threads that affirm my understanding of sex, which you originally disputed.

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lachsarb OP wrote (edited )

Deflections and shifting goal-posts.

Not an argument. Nor is that accurate.

And no, you're not queer.

That's fine. I'm gonna go get me a genderfluid boyfriend with a vulva (which is transphobic to you) while you invalidate their gender identity (which is totally not transphobic in your view) as well as my gender identity, sexual orientation, and romantic orientation (which again is also totally not queerphobic to you).

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lachsarb OP wrote

No, the idea that there are biological sexes is the transphobic part.

The twitter thread you literally linked affirms that sex is biological, which again is backed by the trans rights document I sourced.

Don't tokenize your friends to change the subject. "I have a friend who is x, how can I be x-phobic!?"

I never tokenized them, I said they're laughing at how you became queerphobic and threw logic out the window in a weird attempt to win an argument against someone you deemed transphobic... anyways that's enough back and fourth. I don't think you realize exactly what happened in this conversation so there's really no point in me trying to get you to understand what on earth either you or I said.

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Fool wrote (edited )

my sexuality revolves more around biological sex rather than gender... biologically female or maybe intersex

May I see your methodology for determining suitable partners? \

Do you make sure to test their genes? \

Do you conduct detailed audit of their genitals, to confirm surgery has been undergone?
Only T-Man penis for you!

How can you tell the difference between intersex and male Wang? Taste?

All this before meeting for a cup of coffee?

Sounds exhausting.


While I largely relate with your sentiment, I just want to sum up the absurdity of the words you have used.

I think that you wanted to say,
"In my experience I have found greater sexual attraction to people with vaginas compared to penii."

But since you have expressed yourself in this way, it asks the questions in your mind, why does the thought of a (non trans-male or intersex) penis cause such aversion that you need to put it as a disclaimer to your sexual identity?

Don't want to be put in the same category as "those" people?

Would dating a Trans-Woman change your identity?

👻


Now back to the actual question.

What do you take away from others by being "Queer"?

What does the word "Queer" mean to you?

Do you need to tell the world that you are "Queer"?

Do you just want confirmation that your thoughts for yourself are valid?

Is there something wrong with being "Queer"?

Does "Queer" have to relate to sexuality and gender?

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mofongo wrote

I try to avoid post on queer for obvious reasons, but time to intervene and put some tracks. You don't need to answer, but these are things you should consider.

  1. Why do you do feel the need to call yourself queer, or more specifically, why do you feel you need permission to call yourself queer? Specially before answering or finding acceptance on your own gender questions.

  2. Why do you consider other People's genitals important for your own orientation?

  3. This was sort of implied, but you should look why your first consideration on a partner is how you would sex them, instead of other parts of their personhood.

  4. Finally, I think this part answers your own question:

I ask because I don't suffer from gender dysphoria, and I am unlikely to run into any issues because of whoever I may have a relationship with.

In short, you're not trans, because you mostly identify with your GAB. You're not gay, considering your dislike of having sex with anyone with a penis (a common belief among macho cis men).

So, the final question is, why do you want to be considered queer again?

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Fool wrote (edited )

That some trans men and trans women find it upsetting that this is the case doesn't make it transphobic.

Well yeah, it kinda does. It's an oversimplification of a complex issue with a complete disregard for those effected.

Maybe "phobic" is not the exact word for it, but it is the common usage of the word.

What you have said is offensive and dismissive. So if you don't understand how that's transphobic, you might need to take a good look at yourself and where your values are coming from.

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CivilizationsEnd wrote

You are upholding centuries old white supremacist falsehoods that essentialize the diversity of human bodies. Please consider touching grass and decolonizing your remaining brain cells

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