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5

_ziq_ wrote (edited )

Honestly I think he's the ultimate American. This is what that culture breeds.

5

manicatorman wrote

Voting alienates people from their moral choices, though. Like - a lot of people can vote for something that they could never do themselves. And our capitalist democracy doesn't give people very many choices. I don't necessarily make a moral judgement on people that voted for Trump - I think their other actions can speak more to what kind of person they are. Voting for Trump doesn't necessarily make you a bad person - but actively supporting Trump-like ideas and implementing them in your community does. I think those things can be separated, given how much we are alienated from each other.

3

robzr wrote

Do you have some logic behind the thought 'Voting for Trump doesn't necessarily make you a bad person', or was that just a gut feeling?

3

manicatorman wrote (edited )

I think you have to realize that a lot of people do not give a single shit about politics and do not follow it closely whatsoever. They also don't trust major news sources (which is actually fair), and so they aren't up to speed on the latest controversy. They also implicitly know that the ruling class doesn't give a shit about them, and Hillary did not make any effort to make herself appear removed from that class, while Trump kind of tried (it's ridiculous, clearly Trump IS the ruling class, but there is that element).

I think the left needs to understand that the right-wing has successfully co-opted a lot of language that is traditionally associated with the left, like defiance, anti-authoritarianism, rebellion, conspiracy, etc - and it's not too far-fetched to understand why some uninformed but well-meaning people get caught up in it. Obviously there are a ton of really shitty people who did vote for Trump, but abandoning Trump voters to the realm of "irredeemable" is a bad move. It certainly won't allow for much rural organizing to take place, which the left sorely needs.

I know he's a socdem, but look at the way Bernie talks to the Trump voters in this video, and look at the reasons they give for voting for him. It actually was a severely misguided protest vote for a lot of people, and it honestly shouldn't be TOO hard separating those people from the actual racist assholes.

3

foggymorn wrote

I think the only way you can vote for Trump and not be a shitstain is if you're completely sequestered from the world.

1

elchololoco wrote (edited )

"Our" President?

To use the inclusive pronoun "our" implies that the Cheeto-in-Chief is my President too.

This is not the case. I acknowledge neither the legitimacy of the enemy country nor its demented leader. You can bend the knee if you want to, but don't you dare imply that I have to, or that I've done so.

I acknowledge only one President: Bernie Sanders, the President in the North, who was robbed of a nomination which was rightfully his. (Edit: Even this I do reluctantly. See my response below.)

So cut it out with this "our" shit. Trump ain't my President.

4

tnstaec wrote

You had me til the Bernie bit. Nobody for president!

3

elchololoco wrote

Fair enough. I support Bernie Sanders only to the extent of his mandate: to protect the right of every Northerner to direct the course of their own lives the way they see fit, provided they do not harm others or prevent others' exercise of the same rights.

If he refuses to do this, or if he goes beyond his mandate, then he will no longer enjoy my loyalty or support.

2

575547887830924 wrote

No, he's our president no matter how much you try to spin it, he won the election. It's simple as that. (I'm not a Trump supporter)

3

elchololoco wrote

He won an election which was not legitimate. Other leaders get 99% of the vote in elections which are also not legitimate. Should the people they rule just fucking consent to it, "because he won the election"? Of course not!

1

ziq wrote

I'm not even an American if you're talking to me.

-2

[deleted] wrote (edited by a moderator )

2

foggymorn wrote

Not really, since both candidates you get to choose from are murderous scum.

-7

Prismatic_Iguana wrote

They will continue to vote against their best interest. We could be even more progressive than the EU right now if only people would stop being so selfish! Hillary was our best chance to bring about real progress and now I fear we will be left 50 years behind where we started in just 4 small years.

7

_ziq_ wrote (edited )

Hillary real progress? What have you been smoking? She's a rightwing warmongering imperialist with blood drenched hands that deported children.

-1

Prismatic_Iguana wrote

So it's cool to shit on the first female with a legitimate shot at becoming president around these parts? I thought that sort of male-centric toxic dogpiling was left over at that other place. Is she perfect, no, but show me a candidate that is. You all rallied around yet another white male to be your savior, typical.

1

DissidentRage wrote (edited )

Bernie would have won but Clinton had the DNC chair rig the nomination for her.

Probably a good reason people continue to vote against their best interest is because the Democrats act like they're owed the support from the working class while not doing anything to engage with them except imply that they're drug-addled welfare queens. Republicans are obvious hucksters and abhorrent people. To lose to them, that takes something almost magical. Trump could at least fake his support for working class people by telling them he'll bring their jobs back. All the average Trump voter heard from Clinton were excuses for why we couldn't raise the minimum wage sufficiently or enact actual good health coverage.