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manicatorman wrote

Voting alienates people from their moral choices, though. Like - a lot of people can vote for something that they could never do themselves. And our capitalist democracy doesn't give people very many choices. I don't necessarily make a moral judgement on people that voted for Trump - I think their other actions can speak more to what kind of person they are. Voting for Trump doesn't necessarily make you a bad person - but actively supporting Trump-like ideas and implementing them in your community does. I think those things can be separated, given how much we are alienated from each other.


robzr wrote

Do you have some logic behind the thought 'Voting for Trump doesn't necessarily make you a bad person', or was that just a gut feeling?


manicatorman wrote (edited )

I think you have to realize that a lot of people do not give a single shit about politics and do not follow it closely whatsoever. They also don't trust major news sources (which is actually fair), and so they aren't up to speed on the latest controversy. They also implicitly know that the ruling class doesn't give a shit about them, and Hillary did not make any effort to make herself appear removed from that class, while Trump kind of tried (it's ridiculous, clearly Trump IS the ruling class, but there is that element).

I think the left needs to understand that the right-wing has successfully co-opted a lot of language that is traditionally associated with the left, like defiance, anti-authoritarianism, rebellion, conspiracy, etc - and it's not too far-fetched to understand why some uninformed but well-meaning people get caught up in it. Obviously there are a ton of really shitty people who did vote for Trump, but abandoning Trump voters to the realm of "irredeemable" is a bad move. It certainly won't allow for much rural organizing to take place, which the left sorely needs.

I know he's a socdem, but look at the way Bernie talks to the Trump voters in this video, and look at the reasons they give for voting for him. It actually was a severely misguided protest vote for a lot of people, and it honestly shouldn't be TOO hard separating those people from the actual racist assholes.


foggymorn wrote

I think the only way you can vote for Trump and not be a shitstain is if you're completely sequestered from the world.