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Freux wrote

Time to be a real anarchist, vote Bernie and show off my "I voted" sticker. /s

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00420 wrote

I'm excited for this. He may be pretty far to the right of me politically, but he's the best damned chance my family has of ever being able to afford our needed healthcare again, so I'm clinging to that, even if that is admittedly a bit selfish.

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MusicMeadow wrote

what part of your beliefs are further left than Bernie Sanders? Genuinely wondering.

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Green_Razor wrote

Lol all of them. He's center-left at best. Still much better than any of the other politicians sadly.

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bloodrose wrote

I'm sorry but he is too much of a class reductionist for me to get on board with him. His campaign was misogynist and he had rampant abuses of female staff happening in his campaign that he just barely addressed in time to run again. He paid a tiny bit of lip service to BLM while online his supporters went full attack mode on any POC. Every time he was asked about race or gender, he went full class-reductionist to avoid any responsibility in having to deal with those issues that are actually plaguing the US right now.

I don't think any president is going to be good but I'm not looking forward to being on the internet for the next few years now that he is running. The bernie bros are going to come out of the woodwork and be dicks again.

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[deleted] wrote

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selver wrote

As true as that all is, it's not like there are better choices. Who's his competition, that fucking cop Kamala Harris? They've all got shit politics.

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[deleted] wrote

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selver wrote

Well yeah, fuck all politicians. Just saying that him winning would probably be the best outcome, despite all his flaws.

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[deleted] wrote

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq OP wrote

It's not even polished, they just stuck a cocktail umbrella in it and called it a day.

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alex wrote

bernie can eat shit. no politicians, not even of the ben & jerry, granola ass variety.

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Awesome wrote

Sanders is the longest-serving independent in congressional history, but competes for the Democratic nomination as he says standing as a third-party candidate would diminish his chances of winning the presidency.

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Mango wrote

Not a fan of reform politics, but maybe this time things will change for real.

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ziq OP wrote

I can see the future. Nope.

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Dumai wrote

wtf why do admins get the power of divination

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ziq OP wrote

I ate your pious soul.

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Mango wrote

Do you carry a glass globe in your pocket all the time?

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ziq OP wrote

Don't need it when Dumai's soul lives in my belly.

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betterletter wrote

I'm guessing you dont live in the US because things are shit here. The idea that we can have medical coverage, or see a doctor at all, at least for a few years, is groundbreaking to a lot of us. We dont need a revolution right now, we just need something.

Now, to be fair, things are shit in a lot of places. And Im not a big fan of the state at all either but a shift from Trump -> Bernie would at least help those who need it most.

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Dumai wrote

assuming congress and the american bureaucracy would even allow those reforms to be implemented effectively

and that's if they get passed in the first place! which is also pretty unlikely

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betterletter wrote

exactly

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Dumai wrote

what do you mean 'exactly'

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betterletter wrote

as in youre right. Even if Bernie or another SocDem was voted in, its very unlikely universal healthcare, income, housing reform etc would be implemented. :(

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bloodrose wrote

veg, i don't know if you remember well but when Obamacare was being crafted, there was discussion of single-payer health care. The bought and paid for government could not allow that to happen. Instead Obamacare turned into a way to give insurance companies even more money. It helped some people a bit but too much power was given to the states and so some states screwed their people so that the black president would look bad. I really do want us to get healthcare for all. Healthcare as a business is bad for everybody. But I don't think Bernie will make it happen anymore than Obama did. :(

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edmund_the_destroyer wrote

If a president - hopefully not Bernie, but I'll take what I can get - goes full bore for Medicare for All and Congress blocks it I think there will be enough protests to get something started anyway. Just about everyone I know is furious over medical costs.

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ziq OP wrote

They don't need to block it, just force insurance-lobby compromises until it's useless.

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ziq OP wrote (edited )

They won't let him be the candidate and if he did get elected in some alternate universe he wouldn't be able to change anything. The system is designed to deflect any attempt at reform.

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edmund_the_destroyer wrote

I just found Andrew Yang, which looks to be a better Bernie Sanders. The Democrats will probably hamstring him quickly.

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selver wrote (edited )

I think the only thing I've seen of him was a Rogan clip where he was saying free college is crazy.

And I think he's some CEO venture capitalist douche.

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edmund_the_destroyer wrote

His central proposal is Universal Basic Income, which to me puts him comfortably left of Bernie. Though it's not clear how authoritarian and pro-war he might be and the Democrats, of course, are usually no better than the Republicans on those issues.

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selver wrote (edited )

Basic income is a right wing austerity & privatization scheme imo, especially the tech ceo variety.

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edmund_the_destroyer wrote

Austerity, maybe. Privatization? How so?

And I think it's an easy case to make to voters. "US inflation-adjusted GDP per capita has gone up more than $25,000 in the last 40 years. US inflation-adjusted median household income has gone up less than $4,000 in the last 40 years. US average household size is more than 2.5. That means the US generates $62,500 more wealth per household today than it did 40 years ago, and the average household gets $4,000 of that increase and the other $58,500 goes to the rich. Let's fix that - the wealthy people in this country were fine in 1979, how about each household gets $58,500?"

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selver wrote

Services the government used to provide you will now be expected to pay for yourself, from a corporation.

It's also a way to avoid ever raising the minimum wage. Get the state to pay people instead of their employers.

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edmund_the_destroyer wrote (edited )

Well, I'm now talking in terms of unicorns and flying pigs but I'm fine with abolishing minimum wage provided UBI is very high.

US current GDP per capita is around $56k. Pass a constitutional amendment mandating that UBI per person = minimum 90% of GDP per capita. Then if someone wants to offer two dollars an hour to people to cut their grass or mow their lawn that's fine, because we all have the freedom to ignore the offer without starving.

Edit: but your point is valid. I hadn't thought of it until I read your post, but yes UBI could be sold to the public as a social safety net but then turned into a weapon to hurt the non-wealthy even more.

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selver wrote (edited )

Yes, I'm not opposed to a leftist version of basic income. The problem is that it's an unlimited strike fund, and I think it's delusional to believe that the left has anywhere near the momentum to push through something like that right now. The sort of UBI that we would actually end up with is the kind pushed by tech CEOs and neoliberals (such people have been running a pilot like that where I live). CEOs like Yang are well aware that a strong ubi would destroy their ability to exploit people, so we should be very critical of their intentions for it.

Edit: But I do agree that it would be good to divorce income from work, even if it's not a good UBI.

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ziq OP wrote

Universal Basic Income is a neoliberal project though, it's not really left.

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edmund_the_destroyer wrote

Yes, but I'd say it's still much closer to left than Bernie Sanders or, as far as I know, any of the other people throwing their hats in for the Democratic Primary stand. A UBI at least acknowledges the anti-capitalist idea that people deserve resources simply for existing.

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq OP wrote

And then you'll vote for Biden in the election when he gets the nomination.

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq OP wrote

I guess you have to pass the time somehow.

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