Half the talk I see on this supposed <<leftist>> site are about how civilization is doomed, we're all going to descend into a primordial state of affairs and / or go extinct because of capitalism. Don't you see this sick barbarism is completely nihilistic and destructive?? It's like you threw your copies of the communist manifesto out and replaced them with the biblical Book of Revelation. There's nothing communist about this devotion to anti-social barbarism. Our civilization is not some evil entity that needs to be feared and destroyed, taking us back to the dark ages. Society needs to be made more equal by educating the working class and creating a revolution.

Communists believe in building a fairer world, not destroying everything we've accomplished, undoing all the progress we've made to get to where we are. We live in an age of incredible technological marvels, where people are connected on a global level like could have never been imagined before. We should be pushing for worldwide revolution, not the reversal of all progress we've gained since the enlightenment and a return to the backwards barbarism that restrained us for so long.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote on October 8, 2018 at 7:35 AM

I'm really tempted to do a point-by-point engagement with this but I have to get work done. Hopefully someone does :)

PS terms like "backwards barbarism" are deeply rooted in racist and ethnonationalist thinking, as the progress narratives of colonisers; you might want to look into that.

Communism_not_Barbarism OP wrote on October 8, 2018 at 7:48 AM

You speak as if there were no white barbarians. In fact, it was most often used to describe Europeans that simply didn't speak Greek very well!

<<The word "barbarian" is derived from the ancient Greek word βάρβάρος which was used 3,200 years ago when a civilization that modern-day scholars called "Mycenaean" ruled much of Greece, writes Juan Luis Garcia Alonso, a Classics professor at the University of Salamanca, in a paper published in the book "Identity(ies): A multicultural and multidisciplinary approach" (Coimbra University Press, 2017).

The word was written on clay tablets found at Pylos, a large Mycenaean city on the Greek mainland. "In the Pylos clay tablet collection we do find the word simply applied, apparently, to people from out of town," wrote Alonso.

A number of scholars have argued that the "bar-bar" in the word "barbarian" may be an attempt to imitate a stammering voice which, presumably, some non-Greek speakers might sound like to someone who speaks Greek.

By "the archaic period [2,700 years ago] there is no doubt that one of the major meanings of the word was linguistic: the Barbarians were those who did not speak Greek," writes Konstantinos Vlassopoulos, a professor of history and archaeology at the University of Crete, in his book "Greeks and the Barbarians" (Cambridge University Press, 2013).

Non-Greek speaking people could be friendly or hostile. The Persians who invaded Greece were referred to as "barbarians" in Herodotus' (lived fifth century B.C.) description of their battle against a Spartan led force at Thermopylae.>>

Besides, I'm simply using the word here to describe the nihilistic anti-civilizational ideology that has a stranglehold over this whole site. This ideology is harmful, destructive and prevents us from achieving communism by creating apathy in the working class. A return to this anarchist babarbarism would be destructive to humanity and reactionary ideologies such as nihilism should be rejected by all communists that believe in bettering human lives. Apathy is our worst enemy.

Pop wrote on October 8, 2018 at 9:13 AM

In the Pylos clay tablet collection we do find the word simply applied, apparently, to people from out of town

this was a time of city-states, and so out-of-towners were literally from other nations - so most of what you're saying re greek language etc corresponds well to the 'ethnonationalism' point made

and you're ignoring the uses of these terms to justify the 'civilising' processes of colonisation engaged over the last several hundred years and how they continue to be employed by racists the world over

Communism_not_Barbarism OP wrote on October 8, 2018 at 9:17 AM

The post-colonial process depends on the people seizing the means of production from the imperialist powers that enslaved them. There's nothing racist about communism, which has liberated billions of people from the jaws of colonization. Would you rather have a China where foreign imperialists are in control, or the Chinese people?

Pop wrote on October 8, 2018 at 9:24 AM

you're not addressing the points being made so you come off like you are arguing in bad faith

instead you're parroting communist truisms that are mediating your engagement with this context and prevent you from having to actually think

Would you rather have a China where foreign imperialists are in control, or the Chinese people?

to do some actually responding to what you're saying, I would rather have no china, because communism is a stateless, moneyless society where people govern themselves and have direct control over the means that intimately affect them

Communism_not_Barbarism OP wrote on October 8, 2018 at 11:21 AM

<<communism is a stateless, moneyless society>>

It doesn't get like that just by magically snapping your fingers, smh anarkids.

martasultan wrote on October 8, 2018 at 12:25 PM

When the hell does it get like that? I'm still waiting.

ziq wrote on October 8, 2018 at 9:24 AM

the fuck are you smoking, thinking china is an example of communism? And you're a euro-USAer so how is prattling on about china gonna demonstrate your weird 'barbarism' shtick isn't racist? get a clue already.

martasultan wrote on October 8, 2018 at 12:15 PM

Would you rather have an East Turkestan where foreign imperialists are in control, or the Uyghur people?

broseph wrote on February 10, 2021 at 10:07 AM

Exactly. This is what these anarkiddies don't get, China is literally surrounded by enemies and the only way it can stay independent is by making sure its land isn't colonized by imperialists. Taiwan, Tibet, Hong Kong all need to be protected against colonization from America even if the people living there have drunk America's kool aid. China is one land and letting it get sectioned up by the imperials like they did to the middle east will destroy the revolution.

ziq wrote on October 8, 2018 at 8:11 AM

I don't see how "anti-social barbarism" (primitive cultures) destroyed anything. Civilization, on the other hand, has rendered vast tracts of the planet inhospitable to most life, and driven 80% of all species to extinction so far.

Communism_not_Barbarism OP wrote on October 8, 2018 at 8:29 AM

This person openly admitted to me he isn't a communist. He clearly has no interest in preserving human life and is pushing his nihilism, anti-communism, apathy and so on to hurt the revolution. He is spreading a reactionary apocalyptic ideology. He openly admits he wants our world to be destroyed.

martasultan wrote on October 8, 2018 at 12:13 PM

What revolution are they hurting?

They don't want our world to be destroyed, they just see that its gonna be.

ziq wrote on October 8, 2018 at 8:42 AM

You're right. I couldn't care less about your ultra-capitalist 'revolution'.

Communism_not_Barbarism OP wrote on October 8, 2018 at 8:47 AM

How is communism the same as capitalism, pray tell?

ziq wrote on October 8, 2018 at 11:43 AM

It's not.

hooray_for_dead_cops wrote on October 8, 2018 at 7:51 AM

I haven't been posting on this site in almost a year but transhumanism is pretty dope.

Communism_not_Barbarism OP wrote on October 8, 2018 at 7:57 AM

Transhumanism is fully compatible with communism, it's not nihilistic at all. I have a close comrade who is a transhumanist and he is very well read.

martasultan wrote on October 8, 2018 at 12:24 PM

It's like you threw your copies of the communist manifesto out

You're not wrong! I'm not much of a fan of Marx.

There's nothing communist about this devotion to anti-social barbarism.

Who said there was?

Our civilization is not some evil entity that needs to be feared and destroyed, taking us back to the dark ages.

Is this literally a crypto-fascist "save western civilization from those antifa anarchists"?

Society needs to be made more equal by educating the working class and creating a revolution.

Alright, go ahead. I'll believe it when I fucking see it.

We should be pushing for worldwide revolution

Ah, the inevitable "it will all be better after the revolution." You're right, I will abandon my lifestyle and put my trust in the Marxist-Leninist party, its worked so many times before.

not the reversal of all progress we've gained since the enlightenment and a return to the backwards barbarism that restrained us for so long.

...the European enlightenment bringing backwards barbarians forwards sounds a bit like colonialism, pal. Actually, a lot like it. You sitting here arguing about how we need to enlighten the poor, dumb barbarians across the world?

RosaReborn wrote on October 8, 2018 at 7:50 AM

We should be pushing for a worldwide revolution

Absolutely, but that revolution needs to actually be revolutionary, as in an actual assessment and alteration of the way we live on the most fundamental levels. I agree there are things that we cannot go back away from nor should we want to, but postciv and other philosophies generally embrace this aspect while routing out the truly insidious aspects of civilization.

A state-communist society would absolutely still face ecological collapse in the coming decades, even if profits are split evenly, those equal profits will sought to be maximized and that isn't sustainable.

Communism_not_Barbarism OP wrote on October 8, 2018 at 7:54 AM

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of communism. The people will be in charge of the factories, meaning there's no reason we would choose to pollute our own environment. We simply wouldn't put profit before ecology.

RosaReborn wrote on October 8, 2018 at 10:52 AM

I don't think it's a fundamental misunderstanding. These critiques are still something that must be faced by an anarchist revolution, namely if there is no government however do prevent folks from destroying the environment and finding new ways to control others. Whether the revolution leaves a state or syndicates or another form of collectives or not, the key thing the revolution needs is a total restructuring of how we interact with the world and how we interact with others.

I'm not dismissing your goals, control of production by the workers is great, but it is not the complete revolution in itself