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The self defeating nihilist attitude on this site needs to stop

Submitted by Communism_not_Barbarism in Politics (edited )

Half the talk I see on this supposed <<leftist>> site are about how civilization is doomed, we're all going to descend into a primordial state of affairs and / or go extinct because of capitalism. Don't you see this sick barbarism is completely nihilistic and destructive?? It's like you threw your copies of the communist manifesto out and replaced them with the biblical Book of Revelation. There's nothing communist about this devotion to anti-social barbarism. Our civilization is not some evil entity that needs to be feared and destroyed, taking us back to the dark ages. Society needs to be made more equal by educating the working class and creating a revolution.

Communists believe in building a fairer world, not destroying everything we've accomplished, undoing all the progress we've made to get to where we are. We live in an age of incredible technological marvels, where people are connected on a global level like could have never been imagined before. We should be pushing for worldwide revolution, not the reversal of all progress we've gained since the enlightenment and a return to the backwards barbarism that restrained us for so long.

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6

Tequila_Wolf wrote

I'm really tempted to do a point-by-point engagement with this but I have to get work done. Hopefully someone does :)

PS terms like "backwards barbarism" are deeply rooted in racist and ethnonationalist thinking, as the progress narratives of colonisers; you might want to look into that.

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Communism_not_Barbarism wrote

You speak as if there were no white barbarians. In fact, it was most often used to describe Europeans that simply didn't speak Greek very well!

<<The word "barbarian" is derived from the ancient Greek word βάρβάρος which was used 3,200 years ago when a civilization that modern-day scholars called "Mycenaean" ruled much of Greece, writes Juan Luis Garcia Alonso, a Classics professor at the University of Salamanca, in a paper published in the book "Identity(ies): A multicultural and multidisciplinary approach" (Coimbra University Press, 2017).

The word was written on clay tablets found at Pylos, a large Mycenaean city on the Greek mainland. "In the Pylos clay tablet collection we do find the word simply applied, apparently, to people from out of town," wrote Alonso.

A number of scholars have argued that the "bar-bar" in the word "barbarian" may be an attempt to imitate a stammering voice which, presumably, some non-Greek speakers might sound like to someone who speaks Greek.

By "the archaic period [2,700 years ago] there is no doubt that one of the major meanings of the word was linguistic: the Barbarians were those who did not speak Greek," writes Konstantinos Vlassopoulos, a professor of history and archaeology at the University of Crete, in his book "Greeks and the Barbarians" (Cambridge University Press, 2013).

Non-Greek speaking people could be friendly or hostile. The Persians who invaded Greece were referred to as "barbarians" in Herodotus' (lived fifth century B.C.) description of their battle against a Spartan led force at Thermopylae.>>

Besides, I'm simply using the word here to describe the nihilistic anti-civilizational ideology that has a stranglehold over this whole site. This ideology is harmful, destructive and prevents us from achieving communism by creating apathy in the working class. A return to this anarchist babarbarism would be destructive to humanity and reactionary ideologies such as nihilism should be rejected by all communists that believe in bettering human lives. Apathy is our worst enemy.

4

Pop wrote

In the Pylos clay tablet collection we do find the word simply applied, apparently, to people from out of town

this was a time of city-states, and so out-of-towners were literally from other nations - so most of what you're saying re greek language etc corresponds well to the 'ethnonationalism' point made

and you're ignoring the uses of these terms to justify the 'civilising' processes of colonisation engaged over the last several hundred years and how they continue to be employed by racists the world over

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Communism_not_Barbarism wrote

The post-colonial process depends on the people seizing the means of production from the imperialist powers that enslaved them. There's nothing racist about communism, which has liberated billions of people from the jaws of colonization. Would you rather have a China where foreign imperialists are in control, or the Chinese people?

5

Pop wrote

you're not addressing the points being made so you come off like you are arguing in bad faith

instead you're parroting communist truisms that are mediating your engagement with this context and prevent you from having to actually think

Would you rather have a China where foreign imperialists are in control, or the Chinese people?

to do some actually responding to what you're saying, I would rather have no china, because communism is a stateless, moneyless society where people govern themselves and have direct control over the means that intimately affect them

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Communism_not_Barbarism wrote

<<communism is a stateless, moneyless society>>

It doesn't get like that just by magically snapping your fingers, smh anarkids.

1

jorgesumle wrote

You want to write « instead of <<, don't you? You should find the appropriate key combination. Now you are writting the math symbols greater than and less than. You can ask for help in f/freeasinfreedom or f/technology

I don't think China is on the way to a stateless society, they are not even socialist. In fact, many people call the Chinese model state capitalism.

3

ziq wrote

the fuck are you smoking, thinking china is an example of communism? And you're a euro-USAer so how is prattling on about china gonna demonstrate your weird 'barbarism' shtick isn't racist? get a clue already.

2

martasultan wrote

Would you rather have an East Turkestan where foreign imperialists are in control, or the Uyghur people?

2

ziq wrote

I don't see how "anti-social barbarism" (primitive cultures) destroyed anything. Civilization, on the other hand, has rendered vast tracts of the planet inhospitable to most life, and driven 80% of all species to extinction so far.

1

Communism_not_Barbarism wrote

This person openly admitted to me he isn't a communist. He clearly has no interest in preserving human life and is pushing his nihilism, anti-communism, apathy and so on to hurt the revolution. He is spreading a reactionary apocalyptic ideology. He openly admits he wants our world to be destroyed.

2

martasultan wrote

What revolution are they hurting?

They don't want our world to be destroyed, they just see that its gonna be.

3

martasultan wrote

It's like you threw your copies of the communist manifesto out

You're not wrong! I'm not much of a fan of Marx.

There's nothing communist about this devotion to anti-social barbarism.

Who said there was?

Our civilization is not some evil entity that needs to be feared and destroyed, taking us back to the dark ages.

Is this literally a crypto-fascist "save western civilization from those antifa anarchists"?

Society needs to be made more equal by educating the working class and creating a revolution.

Alright, go ahead. I'll believe it when I fucking see it.

We should be pushing for worldwide revolution

Ah, the inevitable "it will all be better after the revolution." You're right, I will abandon my lifestyle and put my trust in the Marxist-Leninist party, its worked so many times before.

not the reversal of all progress we've gained since the enlightenment and a return to the backwards barbarism that restrained us for so long.

...the European enlightenment bringing backwards barbarians forwards sounds a bit like colonialism, pal. Actually, a lot like it. You sitting here arguing about how we need to enlighten the poor, dumb barbarians across the world?

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hooray_for_dead_cops wrote

I haven't been posting on this site in almost a year but transhumanism is pretty dope.

2

Communism_not_Barbarism wrote

Transhumanism is fully compatible with communism, it's not nihilistic at all. I have a close comrade who is a transhumanist and he is very well read.

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RosaReborn wrote

We should be pushing for a worldwide revolution

Absolutely, but that revolution needs to actually be revolutionary, as in an actual assessment and alteration of the way we live on the most fundamental levels. I agree there are things that we cannot go back away from nor should we want to, but postciv and other philosophies generally embrace this aspect while routing out the truly insidious aspects of civilization.

A state-communist society would absolutely still face ecological collapse in the coming decades, even if profits are split evenly, those equal profits will sought to be maximized and that isn't sustainable.

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Communism_not_Barbarism wrote

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of communism. The people will be in charge of the factories, meaning there's no reason we would choose to pollute our own environment. We simply wouldn't put profit before ecology.

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RosaReborn wrote

I don't think it's a fundamental misunderstanding. These critiques are still something that must be faced by an anarchist revolution, namely if there is no government however do prevent folks from destroying the environment and finding new ways to control others. Whether the revolution leaves a state or syndicates or another form of collectives or not, the key thing the revolution needs is a total restructuring of how we interact with the world and how we interact with others.

I'm not dismissing your goals, control of production by the workers is great, but it is not the complete revolution in itself

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Communism_not_Barbarism wrote

Do you think you can brainwash me with your Western liberal propaganda? I'm not some naive anarchist, unlike you I actually read theory.

2

ziq wrote

You're literally a western liberal, except you have some kind of tank fetish.

1

ziq wrote

and love the taste of boot even more than most liberals.

1

surreal wrote

lolz. have fun with the environmental changes the next couple of decades puny human.

1

Freux wrote

NO.

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Communism_not_Barbarism wrote

May I enquirer as to why?

1

Freux wrote

First of all, I don't see why you think this is not a website for leftist. You also talk from an western european point of view and use questionable words which make you look like a troll.

We had over a hundred years to educate and creating a world wide revolution, at this point it's wishful thinking. We need to get rid of a lot of stuff, our way of living is not substainable and it's killing us and other species. What's great about individualists is they don't seek to force people into their vision and it works from the start. You can be hopeful but you can't deny how deep in shit we are with climate change, it's not like we can reverse the effect. Controlling the mean of production won't solve the issue, we need to do far more.

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FULLCOMMUNIST wrote

What's great about individualists is-

Nothing, there is nothing great about individualism as an ideology. Jeez this website is a hellhole.

1

Freux wrote

Yes, this place is hell and it's beautiful.

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FULLCOMMUNIST wrote (edited )

Yeah sure if you love politically illiterate reactionaries posing as revolutionaries/radicals then sure, it's great!

1

Freux wrote

Why are you losing everyone's time and bother writing here?

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FULLCOMMUNIST wrote

Because there are probably some people who browse this website with actual intentions on creating a better society trying to develop their politics, and it'd be a tragedy for them to read and absorb the nonsensical drivel that so many users on this site propagate. So I'd like to come in with actual historical/theoretical knowledge that the anarkiddies here literally refuse to learn.

4

Freux wrote

Look everyone, the "communist" messiah as arrived.

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FULLCOMMUNIST wrote

Not claiming to have all the answers but gotdamn the shit some of you say here is absolute garbage, it doesn't take a "messiah" to break it down, just literally anyone who has read theory

3

Pop wrote

You might want to try some good faith engagement with people here

Many regular users read a lot of theory, so whenever you say that you come off like you have no idea what you're talking about and that your idea of theory is very limited to quite dogmatic and largely outdated forms of communist thought

those same users are aware of the kinds of arguments you seem to be making and have read beyond them and in light of many of the important changes to the world since old communist theory was written

1

mofongo wrote

All right, so where's the historical/theoretical knowledge?

1

FULLCOMMUNIST wrote

What do you want me to do? Type some abstract lecture? It comes out organically from thread-to-thread in response to others.

1

ziq wrote

What exactly leads you to believe no one here has any 'actual knowledge'? Just because you're stuck on Lenin and Stalin doesn't mean we have to be.

1

FULLCOMMUNIST wrote (edited )

I've read Kropotkin, Mahkno, and Bakunin as well, along with anti-USSR Marxists like Debord, Gramsci, and contemporary sociology such as Bordieu and Mills, and SO many others. So no, I'm not "stuck" on Lenin and Stalin, I developed my politics through my accumulated experience with both anarchist, Marxist-Leninist, and modern Marxist theory and REAL LIFE organizing, unlike so many of you I'm not just an Online Leftist™

1

ziq wrote

I can safely say if you tried to organize with me I'd yank that ego right out of your head and stomp on it.

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Communism_not_Barbarism wrote (edited )

Leftists care about society. Leftists want to help their fellow man. Leftists don't want to destroy our civilization. And what's wrong with being of European descent? Is that forbidden around here? You can be from Europe and support anti-imperialist policies, the majority of the Soviet Union was situated in Europe and did more to fight Western imperialism than anyone. I'm an American, to be clear.

Lol individualists? So you're literally a capitalist then?? If you think individualists don't force people to follow their vision, you must not have noticed the Western governments working towards destroying all the communist movements in the world.

Of course you can reverse global warming, that's grossly anti-scientific. We just need to adopt more sustainable practices to limit carbon.

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Freux wrote

I'm not criticising europeans, I'm criticizing western civilisation point of view as like it was the only legitimate world view.

The soviets didn't care about their fellow humans.

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Communism_not_Barbarism wrote

Okay. The Soviet Union literally saved the world from fascism but they don't care about their fellow humans. Top minds on this site.

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Freux wrote (edited )

I can agree that Stalingrad's battle was a huge push against nazis and turn the tide of the war but it doesn't change the fact that the soviet weren't alone fighting in the war and that they also did some really disgusting things throughout history.

So yeah I'm not going to idolize fascists because they fought another fascist.

3

martasultan wrote

Molotov-Ribbentrop pact literally saved the world from fascism. Surely the Polish Jews were elated to know the Soviet Union would... eventually consider saving them, as long as the Nazis betrayed them.

1

mofongo wrote

It's not my civilization. I didn't make it, i inherited it, and what I inherited is a bunch of shit. So, to hell with civilization, let's create something new!

Of course you can reverse global warming, that's grossly anti-scientific.

What's unscientific is you believing that we can stop global warming. Even if all of humanity and our civilization disappear tomorrow, the damage it's already done and things would get progressively worse.

We just need to adopt more sustainable practices to limit carbon.

Not going to work, that's just liberal propaganda.