Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

5

Tequila_Wolf wrote

Lastly I'm thinking about this in relation to the invisible committee's recent work around destituent communism. On the idea of moments of communism being those things that some group of people simply unable to give up on. e.g. When they come for your housing, maybe 20% of you or something are simply unwilling to cede it, and so there is a moment of communism between you.
Is this then an inherently defensive position? And if it is, doesn't it mean that it's just a matter of time before its coopted?

Thinking about this somewhat in relation to Bellamy's desire to make sacred certain values. Because Bellamy thinks that some things are not cooptable. But I think anything can be once we are alienated from it.

Anyway I think that there are parallels between destituent communism's 'moments of communism' and Bellamy's idea of making some values sacred.

It's related to his thinking that “it’s possible to really, seriously hold values that cannot be commodified”.
I'm struggling to articulate myself here, but I don't actually understand what the use of this is.

Even if we can hold values that cannot be commodified, we still have to come to hold them.
And what exactly is special about their inability to be commodified? What does it do for us in the larger scheme of our aims?
I think I'm missing something.

4

Catsforfun wrote (edited )

I ma a hardcore fucking feminist and I completely disagree with these ppl's take on substance and consent.

But I also think it was assault in this instance bc of the level of inappropriateness and the sexual pushiness, the power dynamics, and the fact that despite the power dynamics he has sex with her completely smashed. The the throwing up bit .. like drunk sex is one thing , but if you've thrown up you probably had too much to consent.

edit- and whether or not they consented, Bones' behavior was predatory. period.

3

selver wrote (edited )

I think I agree with /u/Tequila_Wolf that Bellamy probably would have responded a bit differently had he read the whole thread, but I'm interested in some of the questions they brought up.

Do you think the outcome was ideal here, is excommunication the answer for a situation like this? Should Bones have presented his version of the story?

What about the power dynamics? Was Bones such a celebrity that he can't have a relationship with other people from his scene? Or is it only his aggressiveness that damns him here?

If Bones was equally wasted, does that change anything?

edit: And to be clear, I do think Bones was being an aggressive creep, but I'd just like to flesh out how to think about this when the reality is that the majority of people have been shaped by patriarchy.

4

Catsforfun wrote

I don't necessarily think excommunication is the answer, but Bones made those decisions to delete his platforms himself, right?

I think it's wise that Bones didn't present his side of the story because it would just sound like he was making excuses. I can't imagine he would own up to much, they never do. But then again, it could have been refreshing, who knows?

About the power dynamics... It's the combination of the age, the gender, the mentorship relationship, the sexual aggression/pushiness, and the alcohol... The not taking no for answer historically (re:texts) didn't help. It's the aggressiveness plus the power dynamic... Acting as if a power dynamic doesn't exist (ie being sexually pushy when there is a large age difference) is a huge red flag. Someone who isn't predatory is able to acknowledge factors that may play into power and consent and adjust behavior accordingly because they are aware of and care about how power affects consent.

I can see why the person says they felt groomed. He kept pushing boundaries while in a position of some power.

Yeah it would change some if Bones was equally wasted, but not terribly much. Those texts alone are enough for me to know what kind of man he is.

4

Tequila_Wolf wrote (edited )

On the topic of creating a new wave of anarchism:

I think Bellamy and especially Aragorn underestimate how much influence they still have on what anarchism looks like in the US. Aragorn is basically the centrepiece of US anarchism in my experience.

It’s hard to do new anarchy 101 stuff. I've been wanting to do one for myself over the last few months and I realistically think it will take me a year if I really try.

I’d be excited to see the third wave stuff be made in conversation with the the global south. I think northern anarchists are generally shit at their decol/anti-imperialism game. And that we've gotta do new work to understand neo-colonialism with the rise of China and to some extent also Russia.

4

selver wrote

It’s hard to do new anarchy 101 stuff. I've been wanting to do one for myself over the last few months and I realistically think it will take me a year if I really try.

I would love to see you do that. The Bob Black one they mentioned is pretty good, I hadn't read it before.

I’d be excited to see the third wave stuff be made in conversation with the the global south. I think northern anarchists are generally shit at their decol/anti-imperialism game. And that we've gotta do new work to understand neo-colonialism with the rise of China and to some extent also Russia.

Guilty lol. I still need to read more about that.

3

Tequila_Wolf wrote

I like when they mention texts in the show, too bad Anarchist Speculations is so huge; I'll probably never get to read it.

3

selver wrote

How long is it? I didn't find page length anywhere.

2

selver wrote (edited )

Skip to ~42:40 if you just want some Dr.Bones drama discussion. I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on it. I was somewhat surprised given the pretty much unanimous reaction I saw online about Bones. Do you think aragorn & bellamy have a valid point to make?

Aragorn! post-left weekly call-in show coming January, get pumped.

4

Tequila_Wolf wrote

Dr Bones was never someone I took seriously or was interested in so I won't say much there. I suspect that Bellamy would have spoken a bit differently had they read the whole twitter thread though.

I'm interested to see how the call-in show goes.