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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

Did you listen to this? How was it?

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[deleted] wrote

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote (edited )

I do think that often it's useful to distinguish between someone who is white and someone who is a white supremacist and that you can do that without discounting the ways that white people benefit from and uphold a world of permanent racial terror and violence.

One of my biggest critiques on leftism or spaces of resistance culture is that most people feel that their work is done. That they are the philosopher kings and their consciousness needs to go no further.

I don't get this in my spaces so much. Usually it's more like people are drowning and dying for information/theory on how to drown less. But yes, imo intellectual humility is the basis for radicalism. Assuming you're wrong, being able to reflect on alternate paradigms, and making yourself malleable enough that you can revise everything that you are in the face of better information, is probably the foundation of good radical politics

I live in countries where white people are a tiny minority and are mostly irrelevant to radical things, and are generally not included in radical things (even though whites have forms of indirect rule, significant cultural hegemony, and have overwhelmingly more capital),. Whites are generally not necessary or wanted at all in most ground-level radical spaces, so the culture is completely different. Also whites generally do not want to be in those spaces.

it mainly brought me back to my opinion that white people need to decenter ourselves at all times lest we recreate further harm to already harmed people.

I think this makes sense and that generally for white people active silence is good praxis in pretty much anything as big as a collective or bigger. Affinity groups can have some other more interesting dynamics though.

I'm not a super big fan of the piece overall but I suspect it speaks better to other contexts. If you're looking for something kinda gritty to engage whites on whiteness, there's No Selves To Abolish. I'm not afropessimist but it helps to have relatively extreme frames so that you can place everything else in relation to them. It's been many years since I've read it and my views have changed considerably since then but it did get me thinking about some things back then.

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[deleted] wrote

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote (edited )

can you speak to why they are unwanted?

There's a long history around here of white people including on the left having terrible white politics, and that overwhelmingly continues to this day, in its various forms. People are rightfully sick of whites, who generally just keep getting it wrong, so many just refuse to work with whites.

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