Recent comments in /f/Palestine_and_Israel

ruminator wrote



RollyMcPolly OP wrote

Reply to comment by kano in by RollyMcPolly

You don't have to agree about it. I asked you to change it not agree with me about it.

Power trip much?

The rest of your response is ignorant, inaccurate and ridiculous. You're entitled to your opinions.


kano moderator wrote

Reply to comment by RollyMcPolly in by RollyMcPolly

I was born with club-foot myself actually, for whatever that's worth.

This ain't worth that much. I banned a mixed race person once for white fragility and racism ahaha.

You don't have to agree about it. I asked you to change it not agree with me about it.

I'm gonna say it like this: first you came in that other thread and spent like a whole lot of time talking about influential the Rothschild's are which is like real classic antisemitic shit, but given the historical context I was like ok fine maybe its not totally sus.

Anyway now you're here and I'm making a really nice reasonable request of you to not use language that other people find oppressive. and you respond with I don't agree its ableist. using an adjective to portray something as bad which also refers to disability. what you're saying is what every weird right person says when they get asked to modify their language.

those two factors in conjunction are real sus. But I'll ask again like would you please edit your comment to remove the ableist language please?


RollyMcPolly OP wrote (edited )

Reply to comment by kano in by RollyMcPolly

I don't agree that this is ableist language. "Lame" can be used to describe a person with a certain disability but, just as with other words, it has more than one definition. Also there is a point where sensitivity over language can go too far, and become more exclusive than helpful. I was born with club-foot myself actually, for whatever that's worth.


RollyMcPolly wrote (edited )

Okay, if there was a rich person who happened to be black that invested into the US, UK, and UN, would you say these are all influenced by black people?

No, but it is more complicated in that. If this black person was investing in policy which affects "black people", or in this case, lobbying for a black supremacist nation (Israel is Jewish-supremacist) placed on other people's land - people of a different ethnicity and culture - then it is no longer neutral. You see what I am saying?

It's even more complicated than that. Take Christianity for example: There are Christian groups such as, "The Family" which lobby the government to represent Christian values. This does not mean that all Christians are influencing the government, but they are represented indirectly from it. Same goes for Judaism.

To summarize: I completely agree that Zionism does not represent Judaism nor Christianity worldwide. Nationalists, colonialists, and bankers who use Judaism or Christianity as a justification for their actions are not representative of your average Jew or Christian. On the other hand, there is often defensiveness and loyalty issues. In this case of this article I perceive an attempt to deflect blame.


nihilistique wrote

Okay, if there was a rich person who happened to be black that invested into the US, UK, and UN, would you say these are all influenced by black people? What about the same thing, but with a queer person? Why specifically target Jewish people as an influence?

Also, I don't blame everything on Christianity either, there are some branching off things that are more chill and not oppressive. If a religion takes a shape that pushes authority, hierarchy, and oppression, then I oppose how it takes shape.


RollyMcPolly wrote (edited )

I'm just left with a question mark at this point...

Sentence 1. There is no reason to reduce my statements to "fixating" on the Rothschilds.

Sentence 2. The Jewish Rothschilds involvement in the creation of Israel was specifically because they wanted a Jewish State - this is not just the influence of neutral "rich people".

Sentence 3. I never implied that Judaism and Zionism are congruent.

Try not to project.

Take a second and consider the double standard being applied to Christianity vs. Judaism. The piece claims that Zionism is "ultimately a project of Christian supremacy".

To make such a claim requires some mental gymnastics, which the article performs in the oversimplification of macro-politics and omission of key Jewish roles in the creation of Israel, all while downplaying Jewish involvement.

The title of the piece is true enough - we know about Christian Zionism - but the article itself reads like a contrived attempt to shift blame and protect the public image of "Judaism" by disassociating itself with "Zionism".

But "Christian supremacy" is not responsible for the continued settling, massacres, prison system, check-points, surveillance, human trafficking, sadistic abuse, propaganda, lobbying of the US government, and ultimately the systematic ethnic cleansing of the region over the last three quarter century under the guise of "security".

At some point it isn't fair to blame every damn thing on "Christianity". It is an easy target, I know, it has a lot to answer for, but let's try to call a spade a spade please.


RollyMcPolly wrote

I find fault with the impression the author gives. Here's another quote:

In the immediately post-Holocaust moment, there was an uptick in Jewish support for the Zionist project – which had never been the dominant political orientation inside Jewish communities before the Second World War – but that does not explain why those states and international organizations chose to advance that project.

Here there is no mention at all about the Jewish Rothschilds, who were powerful and influential in the UK and in Europe and actively worked towards creating an Israel in Palestine, even before WWII. For the author to mention an "uptick in Jewish support" without mentioning the influence of the wealthiest banking dynasty on the planet is more than a little misleading.

And the US, UK and UN may all be influenced by Judaism, just as they are influenced by Christianity, and wealth, banks and corporations.


RollyMcPolly wrote

The State of Israel was created by a variety of large transnational actors, especially the United Nations, the United States, and the United Kingdom, none of which are controlled by Jews.

Understand Zionism for what it truly is: not an isolated political form of Jewish supremacy, but an outgrowth of European, predominantly Christian colonization and white supremacy – and ultimately a project of Christian supremacy.

This author completely ignored the influence of the Rothschilds in the creation of Israel. This was an international banking family which, according to Wikipedia:

During the 19th century, the Rothschild family possessed the largest private fortune in the world, as well as in modern world history.

In 1917 Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild was the addressee of the Balfour Declaration to the Zionist Federation, which committed the British government to the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

Baron Edmond James de Rothschild (known in Israel simply as "the Baron Rothschild" or "the Benefactor" (Hebrew: "HaNadiv"), youngest son of James Jacob de Rothschild, was a patron of the first permanent settlement in Palestine at Rishon-LeZion (1882). He also provided funding for the establishment of Petah Tikva as a permanent settlement (1883). Overall, he bought from Ottoman landlords 2–3% of the land which now makes up present-day Israel. After Baron de Hirsch died in 1896, the Hirsch-founded Jewish Colonisation Association (ICA) started supporting the settlement of Palestine (1896), and Baron Rothschild took an active role in the organization and transferred his Palestinian land holdings as well as 15 million francs to it. In 1924, he reorganized the Palestinian branch of the ICA into the Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association (PICA), which acquired more than 125,000 acres (50,586 ha) of land and set up business ventures. In Tel Aviv, the Rothschild Boulevard is named after him, as are a number of localities throughout Israel which he assisted in founding, including Metulla, Zikhron Ya'akov, Rishon Lezion and Rosh Pina. A park in Boulogne-Billancourt, Paris, the Parc Edmond de Rothschild (Edmond de Rothschild Park), is also named after its founder. The Rothschilds also played a significant part in the funding of Israel's governmental infrastructure. James A. de Rothschild financed the Knesset building as a gift to the State of Israel and the Supreme Court of Israel building was donated to Israel by Dorothy de Rothschild. Outside the President's Chamber is displayed the letter Dorothy de Rothschild wrote to then Prime Minister Shimon Peres expressing her intention to donate a new building for the Supreme Court.