Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

ziq wrote (edited )

The important thing is it's not up to a bunch of people on the internet how Palestine should manage itself, it's up to Palestine. The sidebar limits this forum as only being for anarchists who want a specific solution for Palestine, which is a notion that's bordering on imperialist.

1

kittybecca wrote (edited )

The important thing is it's not up to a bunch of people on the internet how Palestine should manage itself, it's up to Palestine.

This is exactly one of the arguments Israel uses to shut critics up: it's not up to the rest of the world to determine how they manage themselves. This fails to take into account the victims of Israel's alleged "self-government", and the same is true of any form of statism.

And it's important to remember that the overwhelming majority of Israelis did not move to the area out of a desire to colonize and rule over "the natives", but rather out of a desire to escape brutal persecution and often certain death in the West, the Middle East and North Africa. They were escaping intense persecutions of the sort that no white Western gentile can understand. This doesn't justify apartheid, but it does put the whole "settler colonialism" argument in perspective, adding a lot of cruel irony to the way that actual white Western colonizers conceptualize Israel. Unlike the colonizers of the Americas, Israelis were mostly refugees.

2

celebratedrecluse wrote

can't the forum be specifically geared to anarchist perspectives on Israel & Palestine? I don't think it's imperialist to have a forum geared to that, it's not leveling power against palestinians to just have a space for discussion in that perspective. like i have posted below, there are definitely anarchist palestinian activists & writers who can be listened to, and who don't enjoy much space in the existing media to discuss their POVs.

If there are non-anarchists on the site who want a space for non-anarchist discussion of israel & palestine, they could certainly make a forum & I wouldn't object. We could remake the title of the forum to reflect the anarchist focus of this forum, as well, if people would feel more comfortable with that. but i think there is merit in having an anarchist-focused Israel/palestine forum, just because this is rare and deserves more space.

1

ziq wrote (edited )

If the people using and modding the forum were anarchist Palestinians, but they're not. It's imperialist for non Palestinians to mandate a specific solution to Palestine's struggle without Palestinian's input.

3

celebratedrecluse wrote

Fair enough. As long as anarchist perspectives are welcomed here (and I mean it's raddle, why wouldn't they be) I have absolutely no issue. In fact, I agree that links to non-palestinian writers who prescribe a specific revolutionary program for Palestine should not be in the sidebar, and that it would be cool to look for APOC palestinian writers to put over there, along with other radical palestinian authors.

I do wonder, however, if we will all feel a bit differently about deferring to palestinian statists when Palestine achieves statehood, or if the anarchist movement grows in Palestine. Perhaps we will look back and think "hm, maybe we should have supported these palestinian anarchist incipient movements more ten-twenty years ago".

But that's a game you could play with any situation, I still think you all are right about removing the hyperlink. I guess I'm just musing/rambling

3

conseil OP wrote

maybe we should have supported these palestinian anarchist incipient movements more ten-twenty years ago

I certainly do support them, personally; I just don't think we have the power to write off everyone else, considering we're not there.

2

conseil OP wrote

By nature of the site this sub would have a lot of anarchist perspectives on Palestine, but I don't think it should be rule of the sub unless its actually being run by anarchist Palestinians.

2