Submitted by El_Burrito in MentalWellbeing

I'm feeling quite confused and not sure how to write this post, so it may feel like it's jumping around a bit. I guess this is a bit of a vent/rant.

I first considered that I may need help with my mental state back in 2016. I went to my GP, said I've been feeling down in the dumps lately and not wanting to do things. They gave me a prescription for sertraline and off I popped. Took it for a while and nothing changed and I eventually stopped taking it.

I worked my first job for 5 years, as a junior web developer learning the trade from more experienced people and on my own time. I was making what I thought was decent money (it's hard to know when talking about wages is so taboo), I didn't have debt because I didn't go to uni and I was living with my parents, so living costs were as low as they could be. I also didn't go out partying or anything so I was able to save money.

In the last year of my job, when I was 25 I actually ended up in my first relationship, meeting a girl through a friend. I've never liked using dating apps due to their deliterious effects on self-esteem so I was happy that I managed to meet someone in person. It was fun at first, but we never progressed passed hand holding and kissing and I really felt like I needed more. I decided to break up but I did not handle it well at all, it weighed on me heavily for a year and even now it still feels bad.

2019 comes around and things are changing in my life! The company that owned the project I exclusively worked on got bought out and they wanted to move development of the website in-house. So I get transferred to a new job, get a gigantic raise, I'm the most experienced dev on the project all of a sudden. 2019 was to be a year of improvement. Striving for success at work and in my own time. I moved out of my parents, to an apartment within walking distance of my new office. I joined a CrossFit gym and started eating healthily. I was stuck in endless referral waiting queues on the NHS for therapy, for ADHD assessments, for ASD assessments. I was seeing a private therapist.

I literally don't know what more people could be expecting me to do and while it seemed like things were improving, they really weren't. Nothing had fundamentally changed. Nothing felt "automatic". Doing even the most basic things still took effort.

I ended up feeling like maybe work was too stressful, so I took extended sick leave. During that, the pandemic kicked off and I ended up coming off sick leave to go on furlough (so functionally the same). When I eventually returned to work I just felt so unmotivated and lazy, like nothing was really worth it.

I probably could've stayed employed despite the fact I was barely doing anything, but for some reason I felt like resigning was the honourable thing to do. I didn't want to leave my apartment some debt that started during furlough got steadily worsened. Eventually I could no longer afford to live in the apartment and finally moved back to my parents. It's been over a year now since I moved back and I haven't done anything to get better. I just feel bitter. You could probably have guessed, but I've now ended up with an alcohol abuse problem. But I can't afford alcohol, so I've been stealing wine from my parents cellar for a year now. I don't even throw the bottles away, they're just piling up all around my room.

"Support" doesn't feel like support. I don't know why I ask for help anymore, because "help" just comes down to someone telling me to stick with it, or do more. Eat healthier, exercise, meditate/practice what you learned in cognitive behavioural therapy, go out and touch grass, start a hobby. I feel like I've been there and done it all and everytime I get told to do it again I feel ignored.

I feel like my life is defined by "laziness". And that's at complete odds with reality and the world we live in. I'm no longer willing to change. Getting help is too much effort, it's stressful and frustrating and even expensive. The state of the world disgusts and scares me and I don't want to be a part of it. Is that so bad?

My life has ended up defined by my mental illness and my mental illness to me is just a fundamental disagreement with the world. The world surely can't be wrong, so it must be me who's wrong. But if I'm unwilling to change, then surely I am a burden on those around me and removing myself would be the best option. I can imagine saying this to anyone and knowing the answer. "There's always a better option than killing yourself. You just need to work hard and with time you can change your circumstances".

How does it feel to know the answers to the test and still fail it.

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Styx wrote

Forget the NHS; it's not going to help. Years ago I used counselling initiatives (https://counsellors.london/organisations/counselling-initiatives/) for low-cost talk therapy (10 quid per session, but they will wave it if you cannot afford it). If you are not in London, it may be worth googling some other low-cost counselling services. They usually have a much shorter waiting list (I waited a month for my counselling) and do not always restrict the number of sessions (as the NHS does).

I very much recognise myself in what you wrote. You are not lazy, you and your feelings are not 'wrong,' and it's not that you are not doing enough. You are depressed and that's how depression feels. Sadly, there is no straightforward plan to get you feeling better, but this is what helped me: I moved back in with my parents (which gave me some sort of a routine and forced me to speak to/meet people daily) and I stopped numbing myself with weed/hash (alcohol in your case). The point is not to drastically change yourself or the world, but to find a place that makes you feel okay (not great, but okay). Wish you all the best.

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El_Burrito OP wrote

I'm not in London but thankyou for the suggestion. I can't promise I'll make use of it but even if in the end the result for me is still the same, I thank you for making a difference.

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flingwingin wrote

You don't know the answers - people giving you those answers must be missing something if their so-called answers only fail. I've heard tons of people complain of the same thing, that everyone says "work out, eat healthy, get vitamin D, and be social, and then your brain chemicals will re-balance and you'll be happy." It's bullshit overall, but true in some ways of course, like it does affect your chemicals, just the problem is upstream of the chemicals so you can't fix it that way.

I've been/had bipolar (or do? idk I've been pretty stable for a while now. Maybe it'll change with the spring but who knows) and have been near psychosis at times over a long span of my life. One thing that I keep coming back to regarding psychosis is that as long as I don't think I'm crazy, basically, I can't spiral into actually being crazy. Like the first step is paranoia and putting too much attention on your symptoms, and from there it gets worse and can be hard to break out of and you just have to wait shit out. I think it's similar with depression. When you tell yourself (and feel that) you have depression, that's when you really have depression. You're told that there's a normal state of being that people are supposed to have, but you never have first person access to that state, and if you do "get there" some of the time according to others, it seems fleeting. The problem here is one about expectations. If you expect a certain normal state of being that is non-depressive, then you'll feel yourself to be depressed, and that feeling itself can spiral towards more apathy and helplessness and lowered capacity for action and everything.

For me, I feel life as pretty fucked. It only feels really good some of the time, and thats generally when approaching oblivion (like falling asleep, just waking up from sleep, or a good orgasm, and other). Besides that though the joy is mixed with discomfort. And when I'm not really doing anything at all, there's no joy. But that's fine, cause we don't need joy when we're not doing shit, cuz you don't need the increased capacity for thought and action and feeling that it gives, u can just kinda vibe.

And the other part is that if you see it as normal, you can start to work within it. Kinda like drugs or something. Don't get so freaked out by the difficulty, and idk like re-learn how to pilot yourself, including forcing desire and motivation.

But that's just about the "depression" part, and at the end of your post you talk about how you think really it's society thats fucked - and I totally agree, and so if your choices are to help out the bullshit in the world you hate, or do literally nothing, doing literally nothing makes sense. If you have no alternative path in front of you, then it makes sense to not have any motivation to do anything at all. Because, why? So my advice is really mostly just this - don't worry so much about the diagnosing yourself part, and focus more on motivation and imagining and exploring what you care about and what dreams you have and how to carry them out in the world (for me this is doing my best to help along the destruction of civilization in order to have a chill world, but shit's hard and there's not even a clear path or people to join. But that's my shit anyways and I think this game will carry me through. It sounds like you want the same thing, and I'd hate to see more of us leave out of pain and fear rather than fight and lose (and maybe win or have fun times along the way) together). It's insane to me that we have a system that says "if you can't get out of bed in the morning then you have a mental disorder and probably a brain chemistry malfunction, possibly since birth" without ever asking "do you have anything to look forward to to get out of bed for?" lmao

Also if you want out of the game, go for it. You were disparate cells of separate bodies which united and grew a person, you grew a capacity to think and talk and pain, but that doesn't mean you're bound to this reality. You can transform again and your thought and this temporary aggregate being will be gone and you'll be scattered forever. Only play the game if you want (for any/whatever reasons though, even irrational).

glhf

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El_Burrito OP wrote

Thank you for your penultimate paragraph haha, that's something I definitely resonated with (not discounting everything else you said). I would love to be able to tell myself "You know what, fuck this shit, it's fucked anyway" and just do whatever it is I really want to do.

I think diagnosing myself was a huge part in my self reflection, but ultimately hasn't really helped me in the long scheme of things.

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flingwingin wrote

I think diagnosing myself was a huge part in my self reflection, but ultimately hasn't really helped me in the long scheme of things.

Yeah. I shouldnt posture like i'm some enlightened untouched-by-DSM self-therapy god or smth. I was suuuper into self-diagnosing and reading psychology theory when i was younger, but I never really had an urge to do it professionally thank god so i ended up coming to the opposite side, which is that the diagnoses suck azzzz, and can hinder you recovering if you identify with it too hard. E.g. i've self ID'd (and been diagnosed by a therapist and recommended to go to a big city to get tested fr) with high functioning autism, and for that they basically say "that's how you're born and you cant do shit except cope". Well the more I come to know myself, it's obviously not anything like that, i'm a lot better than where I was, and it's obviously many factors but tied up in family life, culture, trauma, and basically a lacking/fucked up philosophy of myself and the world and my place in the world. When u stick with a definition it can be used to say "thats just how I am". I'm kind of extremist about this, but I think really most mental illness is just problems of coping - both adaptive and maladaptive - and of how we see value, what "self" is, and things like that.

Anyways, through and out :) gain clarity with it, but dont let it hold you down in pessimism

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Fool wrote

The world is wrong - create your own!

If you don't think it's worth getting out of bed, maybe try some activities achievable while lying down - Astral Projection, Lucid Dreaming, Luge, etc.

I have a spiel about Nihilism and Reasonable Hope, but I feel like I am preaching something I made up with no basis. I can talk about Nihilism if you want.

I think the Wall of Awful is also another useful concept...

I'm feeling very detached right now...

Chirp! Chirp!

🦤

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El_Burrito OP wrote

I do find lucid dreaming and the idea of astral projecting very interesting. I certainly have the time to practice.

I think I've been an nihilist since my early ages (when I didn't even know how to pronounce the word correctly!) and I feel like I know that just because life doesn't have inherent meaning, that doesn't mean that I can ascribe a meaning to it that's fulfiling to me and helpful to others.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

I get the vibe that you haven't figured out how to live in a way you like. I think trying to figure out what you want to do then doing it is a good plan.

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El_Burrito OP wrote

For sure and at a base level I'd agree. But I'm just having real trouble. When I really try to take my circumstances and mental state seriously I always end up coming to the same conclusion.

I was a professionally employed as a web developer. I think of myself as a programmer. But I haven't actually done any programming in over a year now (since I quit my job). Everytime I think of how lift myself up and get out of the situation that I'm in, I think these steps, in no particular order:

  • Brush your teeth, twice daily
  • Exercise for at least 30 minutes, 3 times a week (and log what you do so you can see the progress)
  • Hit your desired macros for diet every day (and log what you eat)
  • Clean your room, clean your toilet
  • Shower every morning
  • Wash your clothes daily
  • Wash your bedding at least weekly, if not more frequently
  • Get your debt sorted out (being in the UK, I've been recommend talking to stepchange.org who may be able to help me out)

and all of that is like a base minimum. Like I feel like that's what everyone else is already doing everyday and I can't even bring myself to do that, let alone keep up with it. I was managing to do this during 2019 for about 6 to 8 months or so and in a way I felt so much more confident in myself when interacting with others. Especially when you compare that to how I am now, where I haven't had a haircut in months, I don't shave (though this is a funny double edged sword, because some people aboslutely love a big beard), I've put on weight, don't brush my teeth hardly ever and barely exercise.

And I can hear most people reading this and just thinking "boo-hoo".

I don't know. You're totally right, I haven't figured out how to live my life in a way I'd like. I really should try harder to figure out what that way is, but I really just don't know if it's worth it.

I'm saying this to everyone though, but thanks for replying. You are right, I just can't quite honestly bring myself to actually make a difference.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

Brush your teeth, twice daily Exercise for at least 30 minutes, 3 times a week (and log what you do so you can see the progress) Hit your desired macros for diet every day (and log what you eat) Clean your room, clean your toilet Shower every morning Wash your clothes daily Wash your bedding at least weekly, if not more frequently Get your debt sorted out (being in the UK, I've been recommend talking to stepchange.org who may be able to help me out)

WTF most people do not do all of those every day. I only do a couple of those regularly lol. Plus ur post had a tinge of self deprivation which doesn't help tbh. And I don't think u got what I meant at all.

If you can't find the effort to do programming and get a programming job maybe u don't actually want to do that. Maybe u should do something way different. Plus I n ever said u won't be able to bring yourself to make a difference. U said that not I.

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El_Burrito OP wrote

That's fair. I guess I just feel like that's what's expected of me. There was a time in my life when I did all of those regularly because I was led to believe that would somehow make things better.

For sure, I agree that if I can't find the effort I should look for something else, but I can't even find the effort to look for something else.

And I agree, I didn't mean to find added meaning in what you wrote. I'm at a moment in my life where I don't think I can give up the self-deprivation. It's not intentional, it really is just how I feel.

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fortifiedmischief wrote

I think your fundamental disagreement with the world is an incredibly important (albeit burdensome to yourself) force within yourself because the world has a lot to disagree with, and yet it is full of people who have given up on a fundamental level and live lives of agreement and apathy. I know that i for one would be very interested in hearing your disagreements laid out in more depth. I wonder if it would be helpful for you and a benefit to the world if you were to write out your thoughts on the matter? and to share them?

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El_Burrito OP wrote

I wish I could elaborate and I would love to, but for some reason I just don't like I'm qualified to talk on the matter. Even though it's my own life, it seems like I would let others walk over me if it just meant acceptance.

I honestly and really glad that you would love to hear what I say, but I fear I don't have anything worth saying. And I don't mean fear in like a "scared of reprecussions" kind of way. But scared that I'm just wrong and unwilling to accept it perhaps. Or that right or wrong isn't really a factor and how I feel is just different, but not widely accepted.

I feel like everything I think is half baked. It's all true to me, but you bring the slighest challenge to it and all of a sudden it all falls apart.

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bloodrose wrote

I was thinking of this tweet as I was reading your post: https://i.redd.it/i51byqo5pud81.jpg

Whether it is true or not, I don't know. I just know that I have shifted my thinking since reading it and I am more comfortable with myself in the world since shifting that thinking.

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El_Burrito OP wrote

On a spiritual level, I agree. I totally think that we are just as animals as the rest of species of animals that exist on this planet are. We are born from nothing and eventually we become nothing.

I would love the chance just to be, but something about the way I was brought up, or the way I am, I just can't shake the feeling that something should be better. And it's not and I don't feel like I have the right to change that, so even though as far as I know dying would be a horrible experience, the time it lasts can only be so long and so much quicker than a life where I simply long for how it could have been.

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