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TheLegendaryBirdMonster wrote

yeah you got that argument right, I don't hate people, and that's the issues I have with anprimism... so we've come full circle... There probably isnt much to say here anymore...

I'm not sure that anarchism can be applied to plants and non-sentient animals.

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autonomous_hippopotamus wrote

Isn't it possible that post-civ can

a) reject anthropocentrism: the idea human beings are inherently superior, more important than other lifeforms and therefore have the right to dominate and exploit nature

while also

b) Recognizing that we are humans, and as a species have distinct interests when it comes to our survival (as both individuals and as a species) and have to utilize technology, there's a certain level of environmental destruction/disruption that is unnavoidable but we can strive to minimize this.

Is that eco-extremism, or is that not post-civ ?

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TheLegendaryBirdMonster wrote (edited )

Yo read my comments... I've got no issue with post-civs! I disagree with them but they arent my enemies. (I disagree because i dont believe low tech tribe-like organisation better than high tech global human networks, I also believe that there is still a possibility for other futures than post-apocalyptic wastelands, and that at least some are better).

anprims are enemies thought. I dont know what words to use, but they give off an "anti-antrhropocentrist" vibe: humans are inferior, other lifeforms are more important, and everyone should die in order for nature to thrive.

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autonomous_hippopotamus wrote

Well i can respect your point of view. And i would regard some primitivists as enemies particularly cults like Deep Green Resistance, and asorted transphobes and general xenophobes who asosciate in that milieu. But i wouldn't say Prims are enemies by default, i've known lots of anarcho-primtivists who are all around descent anarchists/activists who support trans rights and aren't crypto eugenicists.

With Post-Civ there seems to be a pretty broad spectrum of belief on the question of technology, so it might not be accurate to say all post-civ folks believe in going back to some low tech, tribal organization, though i'm sure there's people who believe that. But i do think you can be critical of anthropocentrism without being a self-hated human and celebrating the deaths of billions of people, but that's just me.

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ziq wrote (edited )

I'm sorry, but I don't remember saying anything about hating people. Your insistence that rooting for the survival of the whole planet; including people is somehow the same thing as hating people is surreal to me. It's bad enough that you're saying 'fuck the rest of the planet and the future of our children, my immediate pleasure is all that matters', but now you're somehow turning that into a moral argument?

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TheLegendaryBirdMonster wrote (edited )

"I don't remember saying anything about hating people"

except when the only way anprims/postciv can see humanity thrive is when 90% are dead or were never born.

'fuck the rest of the planet and the future of our children, my immediate pleasure is all that matters'

yep except its possible to do that in a sustainable way, like the bright green environmentalism we talked about a few months ago.