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masque wrote

What are you even trying to say?

Don't act like the idea that "debate is competitive" is incomprehensible.

The parties involved presumably have the goal of convincing the audience (and maybe their opponent) to accept their own viewpoint. One participant's success in this regard will detract from the other participant's success. How is that not competition?

Sure, you could argue that both parties have the "shared goal" of arriving at the truth, but this is no different from the fact that in, say, chess, both parties pursue the shared goal of mutual enjoyment by working towards a mutually-exclusive sub-goal of winning the game. Thus, there is both competition and cooperation present.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

Honestly this thread is the perfect example of why viewing discussions in a competitive framework is shit, it just devolves into people trying to sound or feel the most right at the expense of coherence or anything useful.

Like, what exactly are you arguing? Because it's got fuck all to do with anything I've said

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masque wrote (edited )

Like, what exactly are you arguing? Because it's got fuck all to do with anything I've said

You appear to believe that "Competition is always destructive - for relationships, play, mental health and performance," which I think is wrong, as evidenced by examples of positive competition. You seem to reject these positive examples by refusing to view them as truly competitive, which is why my other responses to your comments mostly consist of me defending the characterization of play, debate, and the "desire to be really good at something" as competitive. (EDIT: Perhaps I should rephrase the last one slightly, and say that while the "desire to be really good at something" is not inherently competitive, many competitive behaviours are driven by this desire in a way that is ultimately beneficial. Ultimately, I see "competitive" as a description of activity, not motivation)

If I've misunderstood your position, I'm genuinely interested in understanding what it is that you're actually arguing here.

I don't "view discussions in a competitive framework," but I recognize that I am trying to convince you (or others reading this) of something, and I think that this is an example of an endeavour that can be described as competitive but also not necessarily bad.

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