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lastfutures wrote (edited )

lol what a fucking loser, socialist youth pastor

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naut OP wrote

what a fucking loser

I urge the author to take his own life, life is too much for him

socialist youth pastor

Basketball? Capitalism! Dogs playing? Colonialism!

gg wp

I think it's important to be critical of why we enjoy what we do. Sure, this probably doesn't apply to everyone, but it did clarify some of the apathy I've been feeling towards videogames recently.

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lastfutures wrote

There's being critical and then there's Christian rock. This is Christian rock.

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naut OP wrote

Huh, turns out christian rock can slap.

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lastfutures wrote (edited )

Christians looked at the sexual themes of rock music, and instead of critiquing it for the patriarchy or queerphobia, created their own version of it where they pretend those drives don't exist, where everything complies with their nonsense (opposed to the evil sexy rock music). That's what this essay is. There are critiques of games to be made, "competition is sociopathic" ain't it & that take is fucking gross.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote

'uwu competition is great, fuck the 'weak,' only the mighty should prevail!'

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Surely you can enjoy some competition without turning into some “fuck the weak” type.

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ruin wrote

I wouldn’t bother with reason.

Ironically, this is clearly a “competition” of virtue signaling at this point.

Are you a fascist or an anti fascist? With us or against us?

The most boring game of identity politics there is.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Yeah I’m pretty bored. Mind you it feels a bit funny to be on this many layers of virtue signalling.

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ruin wrote

Yep. I wouldn’t bother usually but this situation seems especially absurd and I had a free moment so...

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

It’s addictive isn’t it?

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

You're certainly trying to twist my words. You chugging that ideology too?

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

Have you ever met a Gamer? The point isn't that 'games will make you into x,' but there should be no surprise why most Gamers are fucked up.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Are you suggesting that the slightest bit of competition will make you as bad as they are?

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

In a hyper-capitalist society where competition is fetishized and held to a grand ideal, yes, quite possibly. Especially when the vast majority of Americans have such strong desires of gloating about how hard they hustle and how deserving of their petty desires because they worked hard.

Competition and survival of the fittest is deeply ingrained in even some of the most anti-capitalist people.

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bloodrose wrote

This is an interesting take. My mother really enjoys board and card games. She becomes hyper competitive. I have for years avoided playing with her because the hyper-competitiveness sucks and I don't enjoy it. (My brothers and I would play for 2nd place growing up because she always won)

With Covid, all of our visits are outdoor and she has started to push us to play board games. She's getting meaner and meaner now. Our last visit, she was meanly competitive with my 6 year old, making her cry when she lost. It was disgusting. (I promised my kid next time we play, I'll be banker and will secretly cheat so her grandma loses.) I think this gaming competition is making my mom a worse person.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote

I'm sorry you have to go through that. It's a problem that is showing it's face in other replies to this post. This is an issue in every part of our culture and it's so deeply ingrained people like OP will ignore it while saying stuff like:

"I would even consider this debate as a form of competition on some level. We're both trying to argue our points of view, but that doesn't mean there must be a winner and a loser."

Or even worse, those people trying to make comparisons to the way dogs play, and the issue with that is, well, we aren't dogs. The ideology of competition is so strong and difficult to shed. The moment "play," becomes as toxic as this it is no longer "play," but now about the desire to dominate and feel superior to others.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Ok, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

There is no we in this moment. Competition is a sickness that is dragging this planet into a spiraling hell-hole. We're doomed and there is no stopping it.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Yep, and checkers are to blame.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

Where did I say video games cause it? Did you even read the article?

The desire for competition is the problem, not video games. Try harder, buckaroo, no one is trying to take your video games away lol wtf.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

No I’m just being an asshole because this thread started by talking about competitive games and now we’re talking about the doom of our species, which is strange.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

The article was using video games as a jumping off point for talking about how ingrained competition is in our culture more generally. It was never really about video games specifically

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Never mentioned video games actually. Was mostly pushing back on absurd leaps of logic.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

tbh it looks to me like you came in here and made some incorrect assumptions about the actual arguments being made because you didn't read the context (ie the article)

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

I skimmed it and found it pretty irritating. So you’re right that I didn’t fully read it, nor do I care to.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

Then why did you feel the need to jump in and discuss it? Seems like you had no interest, but yet still felt the need to join the conversation. It's because you think this is a case of 'video games will make you a killer,' and that's not even the point being made.

Blowing hot air.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote (edited )

Because I found the overall tone of the article pretentious as well as its defences.

And reread the fucking thread, I offered some mild pushback on your weird leap to social Darwinism.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

You said you skimmed it.

You told me we need to agree to disagree. I don't think there is anything to agree on. Competition is a sickness that will destroy this planet. Is climate change now suddenly not happening? Are whole forests now suddenly not being cut down? Are wars not being fault for dwindling resources?

People crave competition because they are told to from a young age.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Yep. I gave it a quick look and found it irritating.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

Astonishing, really. Willing to derail a conversation because you didn't like the 'feel,' of an article.

That other person was right. No sense in reason.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

I’m willing to derail a conversation purely for personal entertainment but yes in this case I decided the author was being annoying.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote

I should have listened to the people telling me about this place. They weren't wrong.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Which ones? There’s a lot of people who hate this place.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote

I’m willing to derail a conversation purely for personal entertainment

The people who told me it's just Reddit 2.0 with a lot more self-arrogance. It's literally just Reddit with extra steps and actually LESS useful dialogue, which is strange to say.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

You can find some really interesting and insightful stuff here as a matter of fact. This article failed to provide it.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

As long as you follow the party line, yes. If not, as you said, you will derail it for your own enjoyment.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

The unwavering defense of 'competition,' is what is dooming our species. Read the articles and let's talk about the desire to dominate that is endemic to most hyper-capitalist cultures. This is about way more than just the video games.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Never put one forth actually. You’ve been making increasingly absolutist and melodramatic statements.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

And you keep avoiding the discussion related to the article in the thread about said article.

You reduced the point to 'lol games don't make you x,' which wasn't even the point to begin with.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote (edited )

Oh that’s because I don’t really care to discuss the article itself, more the discussion around it.

Oh and I was answering your logical leap where “competition doesn’t need to be awful” became “kill the weak” in your mind.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote (edited )

I think mental gymnastics are neat.

OOh and I was answering your logical leap where “competition doesn’t need to be awful” became “kill the weak” in your mind.

You clearly don't know many Gamers.

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lastfutures wrote

Basketball? Capitalism! Dogs playing? Colonialism!

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

critical reflection? Moralism!

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lastfutures wrote

There's nothing critical about it.

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Weedsmoker420 wrote

You have to be very deep into ideology to respond to simple critique so aggressively.

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lastfutures wrote

I think that play is one of the few redeeming qualities of humans in this world so yes I'm hostile to socialist content mill assholes with shit condemnations of it.

"The competitive urge is a destructive and sociopathic urge"

This is fundamentalist Christian level propagandizing.

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black_fox wrote

considering you think the author is a loser it’s weird what strong opinions they’ve elicited from you

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train wrote

Idk why but people really dislike NJR. You find the same kind of reactions to him wherever any of his articles are posted.

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lastfutures wrote (edited )

People who elicit strong negative opinions from me are who I usually insult, I don't know how that's weird.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote (edited )

This is fundamentalist Christian level propagandizing.

Ok Evola

This is hardly a "condemnation" of play, did you read the article?

I am not one to apply moral standards to video games, but something does depress me about playing this kind of simulator for too long.

The competitive urge is a destructive and sociopathic urge—it means total dedication to one’s own success and a desire to prevent that of others. The spheres in which this is useful need to be carefully delimited; in foreign policy it is deadly, in economics it creates ceaseless exploitation, in education it puts students under constant pressure to outperform their peers, though on an Xbox or chess board it is relatively harmless.

If the desire to hold and exercise power over others is innate and ineradicable, then let us confine it to empire-simulators and football games.

what exactly are you objecting to here? It certainly doesn't look like it's anything to do with the games given that the author explicitly states they are not condemning them several times

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lastfutures wrote

Literally everything you put in bold, the very next word is but (you edited around that). Do you accept the performative hedging of every preacher this easily?

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

And the "but" is followed by a personal preference. Which is the only kind of objection the author gives.

following the first quoted statement:

but something does depress me about playing this kind of simulator for too long.

following the second quoted statement:

But I certainly do not want to spend much of my time coming up with new ways to try to be better than other people, whether at canasta or at maneuvering pixelated paladins across 15th century Europe.

In fact, I confess that I don’t like competitive games generally.

It always seems to me to be somewhat arbitrary.

following the third quoted statement:

But personally, I grew weary of playing Age of Empires again quite quickly, and I doubt I will return to it. I am no longer in the mood to compete with anyone.

so the guy doesn't personally want to play your favourite video games so much anymore. wishing they killed themselves is obviously the only sound reaction to such heresy

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lastfutures wrote (edited )

If you can't even acknowledge that the author is arguing a point, that this is an essay with a thesis & not a private diary entry, then there is nothing to talk about here. It's hard for me to believe that you really think the use of I and personally mean they aren't condemning anything here, that you would accept that argument in any other context, if you didn't agree with the thesis.

"The competitive urge is a destructive and sociopathic urge" but since I used the word personally in the last paragraph I'm not making a point or trying to get you to agree with anything. Like what the fuck are you talking about?

As for the suicide comment, that was an edit that I didn't keep, because it didn't communicate what I wanted. Life-denying asceticism was the imagery I was going for.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

It's hard for me to believe that you really think the use of I and personally mean they aren't condemning anything here, that you would accept that argument in any other context, if you didn't agree with the thesis.

Of course they're arguing something. But that something isn't "video games bad" or "dogs are colonialism" or whatever the fuck you were spouting initially.

"The competitive urge is a destructive and sociopathic urge" but since I used the word personally in the last paragraph I'm not making a point or trying to get you to agree with anything. Like what the fuck are you talking about?

So what you're objecting to is their condemnation of competition and domination - which is what the article is actually about. So just straight up say that instead of dancing around with "ooh this is christian propaganda coming to take away our games". Though I suppose that wouldn't give off as good as an aesthetic

Life-denying asceticism was the imagery I was going for.

and you were going for that because?

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lastfutures wrote (edited )

Do I need an analytic philosophy degree to talk to you or something, do you need logical formulas? Are you asking me to do your interpretation & reading comprehension for you?

The essay - on the face of it - is about a competitive game & why the author doesn't like it. You just said the article is a condemnation of competition and domination - but that condemnation & the discussion of games is somehow unrelated? Please don't make me go thru this essay line by line to draw the connections.

I haven't danced around anything. Basketball is a competitive game. Therefore, the author has a problem with it, and said so explicitly (Nor do I like prizes or the Olympics or capitalism (note that this is in the list) or card games or anything that involves pitting people against each other to see who is better. It always seems to me to be somewhat arbitrary, given that much of the outcome is predetermined by the random distribution of privilege, money, talent, and free time.). Dogs competitively play-fight with each other, most of us find it cute. If you do a little interpretative work here, you can see that I am mocking the author for his take on play-fighting, being unable to separate it from real fighting for survival. I thought some might find the image of a socialist calling puppies wrestling the seed of colonialism humorous!

When I reference Christianity, I'm referring to Nietzsche's critique of it - resentment, life-denial, & so on. I think the parallel to socialists being against competition in games is an obvious one, that shit belongs in a Stalinist reeducation camp (or Christian opposition to art with evil or sex in it). If you disagree , whatever let's not get into it, a Current Affairs article seems difficult enough here nevermind Nietzsche.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

not liking competitive games as a symptom of a pervasive culture that valorises competition is basically the gulags and literally the same as Christians thinking porn is sinful

k

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lastfutures wrote

So that's how you communicate eh? I untangle one bullshit misinterpretation so you just come up with another without acknowledging you had moved the goalposts. I'm just going to block & move on, every conversation we've had has been a waste of time.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote

You literally entered this conversation with useless drivel and now you want to pretend to be some bigbrained.jpeg bringer of civility? Look at yourself lol.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

I think that play is one of the few redeeming qualities of humans

With you there.

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inthedustofthisplanet wrote

Can you show me where they are a pastor? I'm having trouble seeing this information. Thanks.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

It’s an expression. In this case it means they’re boring and moralistic.

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RadicalConstructivist wrote

in other words, "lastfutures doesn't like them"

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Yes, but to be clear I mean that literally. I’m not trying to be snarky or anything. “Youth pastor” as far as I can tell means exactly what I said.

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