Submitted by fortifiedmischief in Feminism

this sub is giving me christian "all porn is bad" vibes and the fact that they're conflating battery, rape, and incest, with porn and sex work is like HELLO where is your "proGresSive FeminISM" ???? Of COURSE the porn and sex work industries are cesspools of exploitation and abuse, but making hard/soft core films and engaging in sex work is not inherently bad. Rape, battery, and incest are inherently bad. Sex work and porn work, other than having the problem of being "work" can other wise exist and thrive in exciting and enjoyable ways, when they're practiced with respect and sensitivity! plus, a big reason WHY these industries are so rough is because people push to BAN them which only serves to push them further underground, making it more difficult for workers to get support when they need it!

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lemon_grass wrote (edited )

99% of porn on the internet is produced via exploitation, those random clips on xxxtube that all these tankiebros jerk off to were not made in some kind of fantasy non-hierarchical pro-sex work porn cooperative. Much of the porn on the internet was filmed without consent. I have no problem with ethically produced porn, but from what I've seen, that's pretty rare in the actual porn ecosystem. I have no patience for these straight cis guy 'radicals' who get triggered when people call out their habit for blind consumption of porn.

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fortifiedmischief OP wrote

lol i have not heard of these random clips u speak of but it sounds strange.

You're right -- ethically produced porn is rare in the actual porn ecosystem. so what would you suggest??

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anarcho_thembo wrote

this is a whole thing for liberal feminists. I have a long time friend who is a pretty standard liberal feminist and she is really really anti porn. they see it as undivorcable from the male gaze. so there's no way to have porn that's actually empowering.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

Deriding and infantilizing women for making personal choices with their body u disagree with is so heckin feminist. I can't believe u would think otherwise. /s

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fortifiedmischief OP wrote

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PumpkinSpiceNose wrote

what is happening omg??????

Women are seeing the terrifying ways in which other women are being abused by a predatory industry and are telling on the industry. Why is this bothering you? Do you think women deserve to be abused so some rando can make money off of it?

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lettuceLeafer wrote (edited )

That's not a problem. It's the also lumping in women who are self employed pornographers i.e. caming ect. Who haven't hurt anyone and the comments are either s riding the woman's decision as a fool or infantilizing them or demonizing them as well rapist men. It stops b in feminism when you rapist men hurting women is used to tear other women down.

Plus it's homophobic too for using mysogynist is existing to do more fear mongering and moral panic about gay self expression thru pornography who almost certainly are raping women in their films.

It's actually quite easy to call out widespread practices in an industry without attack gay men and women who didn't do anything u don't like. It's just bullshit mysogyny women are mad so they tear down women lower in social hierarchy than them rather than making sure their comments actually attack the harmful men.

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fortifiedmischief OP wrote

Do you think women deserve to be abused so some rando can make money off of it?

absolutely and obviously not. so firstly, and sorry for the anger, but fuck you for even suggesting that.

okk

my problem is that demonizing sex work and porn as a whole does nothing to support the people who are already involved in these industries.. of whom many are doing so by choice. Sex work is legitimate work and porn is not an inherently exploitative form of entertainment. Both do and have existed in safe and empowering ways. I have close friends who have done sex work and have been lucky enough to work for women who have an established way of doing business that ensures the safety of the people working and fair pay.

What makes sex work and porn so dangerous, especially now, is that there is little opportunity for workers to organize themselves and establish a structure of accountability and protection for everyone involved. This is largely because of how taboo both these industries have become... because of "feminists" who would burn down the whole brothel no matter how many women are inside.

This attitude makes it extremely difficult to establish "legitimate business protocols" (i kinda hate using these terms... but you get the point) because of the extent to which society undermines the efforts of those trying to make sex work safer.

Another obvious problem with sex work is how hugely gendered it is. Sexism flourishes behind closed doors, and especially in settings as intimate as sex. But, as I've beeeeen saying, eliminating sex work does nothing to address the real issue, which is that women are continuously having their bodily autonomy restricted and it starts way before it ever gets into the sex work industry. It starts with how men and women treat each other online, in the dating scene, in the movies, on the news, around the dinner table. And then it contorts and rots and grows and then those ugly sexist urges get spat out onto the sex work industry, where "no one cares" and "no one can get in trouble" because...... people are more concerned with pretending none of it exists, than addressing the reality that sex can be an art form and a beautiful thing, IF we take care of our sex workers.

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