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[deleted] wrote

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Ashy wrote

why not focus that energy then on ppl who are actually hurting us?

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[deleted] wrote

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Ashy wrote

regular straight folks? existing?

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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Ashy wrote

i mean it is natural, it is neutral...people don't control their sexuality :/

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subrosa wrote

If you want to insist on a 'born this way' type sexuality, consider how that sexuality is expressed, how it is shaped by or channeled through various existing norms, institutions, morals, power dynamics, etc. — at the very least, there are aspects to what it means to be straight that are a product of culture. None of that is natural (in any inescapable sense), nor neutral.

The 'inherent' straightness, if such a thing exists, doesn't need to create a world that is that hostile to queer folk. And as long as it is, I feel pretty comfortable with punching up and making fun of straights.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

Straightened is inherently trans and NB phobia tho. If you are very attracted to someone and are dating them then they comenout as nonbinary but do little to change your apprence the straight person would either have to become somewhat gay to respect their NB partners identity or stop dating them specifically bc they stopped being cis.

Transphobic in the sense that many straight women might perceive a trans butch woman as a man and be attracted to her but that would be gay so they would not be attracted to the trans person exclusively bc they are trans.

Straighness is controlling ones sexuality. Preventing sexual desire of some queer people to preserve their straightness is what is required to be straight. The same goes for being attracted to pre transition trans people but refusing to date them despite being attracted to them bc they are trans.

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[deleted] wrote

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bloodrose wrote

I would be really damned careful with this rhetoric. I know a lot of old gays that went through a lot of traumatic shit because people believed they were chosing to be gay. While I, as a bi person, have felt it was super bi-erasure to say sexuality isn't a choice, I have to admit that saying it is a choice caused a lot more pain to people and do not need my feelings validated here.

Also, as a woman who has watched hard fought for rights taken away in my lifetime, I am here to tell you it is possible. Gay rights can move backwards. Giving ammo to the right-wing like "sexuality is a choice" is probably not the best idea.

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[deleted] wrote

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dsfsf4ewtb wrote

listen, it's not biological, but it's also not a choice. there is a complex web of cultural, genetic, environmental, and biological factors which endow someone with a specific orientation or gender identity. These things can not be consciously chosen, and they exist outside the realm of politics.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

I will say this it wasn't until encountering the gayness is a choice naritive on raddle did I I stop being straight which made my life way nicer. Personally the born with it naritive has been somewhat invalidating for me. So u may be right about it giving the right wing ammunition but it was a very useful naritive for me in coming to terms with queerness.

I just wanted to add how it has helped me not to invalidate your point. I'm glad you said something bc it is something I should take into consideration as I grew up where being a gay man was quite normal and far less stigmatized. It's something I will take into consideration in mulling over my position of sexuality as a choice.

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bloodrose wrote

No, that's a legit perspective. And perhaps mine is outdated. I could probably use a bit more nuanced perspective here.

I worry about backlash because I remember being a wild, free spirit in the 90s with all my abortion rights and shit and have been watching it all eroded away by MRAs, Tea Parties, TERFs and Q-sters...it just makes me fearful of giving opressors a single inch, especially an inch that they used to weild. I know a lot of gays who went through a bad time because people thought it was a choice and bear those scars.

I am personally ambivalent to the idea of whether or not sexuality is a choice - I don't think rights should depend upon "born this way" mentality and what anyone does with their love is their business and no one ele's. But on a "haha, so funny" note, while watching old Hercules episode today, I was like "There is no way I chose to be attracted to Kevin Sorbo - that man's a jerk!"

I will attempt to rethink my take and approach it from a more nuanced place. Thanks for your gentle input.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

Yeah I'm lucky enough to be privileged enough to not rely on government officials deciding to be nice for me to live my life. So I think your comment is good in h3lping remind me to sympathize with other like u who fear the government taking rights away.

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dsfsf4ewtb wrote

sexuality is unconsciously determined by genetic and environmental factors.

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lettuceLeafer wrote (edited )

Got some evidence for that? I've never seen any research proven sexuality is genetic. It also makes fuck all sense since sex and gender is a societal contrived and not biological. Unless humans somehow evolved in a way that RNA and DNA understand made up societal contracts that constantly change. I'd live to see that study tbh sounds fascinating.

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