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groovygardener42069 OP wrote

Right, but arena rock ala bon jovi doesn't position itself as an alternative to popular culture in the same way pop punk does (or tries to, depending on how you look at things).

There are some really amazing and poignant breakup songs from a male perspective. "Heard it Through the Grapevine," "By The Time I Get To Phoenix," "Walk on By"

Shit, even "Love Hurts" by Nazareth gets to the point without being toxic about it.

I feel like there's two lines here - what are we as a culture tolerating and what are we as a culture celebrating? Take that song "Blurred Lines" for example - depending on the context and crowd in which its played, that song may not be welcome at all, or it could get the whole floor heated. Personally I fucking hate that song, but this all points to a certain level of responsibility among DJs, scene-shapers, etc to use judgement in what they celebrate within their respective scenes.

But within the context of (pop) punk, in 2021, I'm surprised I haven't seen an honest reappraisal of stuff like this that is objectively awful but still considered a classic representation of the genre.

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ruin wrote

Much of the genre is basically a precursor of incel culture. That nice, nerdy kid that gets picked on at school by jocks and can’t get “the girl” trope is the bulk of pop punk along with the explicitly political acts.

Rather than a reappraisal, maybe all the oldies could just quit listening to that type of shit. Honestly, they’re the only ones that care about the descendents aside from maybe some tweens just getting into the genre and trying to look cool by listening to mediocre 40 year old bands.

One of my kids has started getting into punk and I’m positive she has no idea who they are. On the counter culture side of the scene folk punk, metal, and noisier shit seems to be where it’s at. For her it’s pat the bunny rather than the descendents as the entry point.

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kin wrote

Much of the genre is basically a precursor of incel culture.

I didn't knew that. And I think a lot of this interact with the regional/national scene too. But I can't see any culture around the world that don't reproduce the misogynistic patriarchy that permeates every level of that society. Actually if we stop to think about any other positive trait, decolonization, queer positivity and feminist, BiPOC representation and reparations, neurodiverse awareness etc.. the general culture is centuries behind and I don't want to sound "progressivist" but we had this toxic culture for so long that the tolerance seems so distant

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ruin wrote

All good points.

I should also point out that I’m calling it a “precursor” to incel I meant that while not as blatantly and even violently misogynistic, there’s much to be found in common. Pop punk tends to play it off as a joke though.

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d4rk wrote

I wouldn't put it that way since we're dealing with teenage problems on a recently developed social sphere. I'm GenZ yet grew up with the generation where "gay" was an insult. I'm not saying they're right, more like give the now adults the benefit of the doubt. They were kids who at this point should grow up. No one's childhood should be defended, everyone clearly knows it was the shitiest time to be alive but we grew up. Times change, we're no longer young enough to do dumb shit.

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[deleted] wrote

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ruin wrote

True. Lots of options. If you don’t want to listen to music with shitty messages you don’t have to.

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groovygardener42069 OP wrote

I'm not sure where to go where that scene exists, apart from picking up and moving to that one neighborhood in Chicago, but I don't wanna move to Chicago.

I ended up just kinda leaving the punk scene a while back cause I didn't wanna be in a boy's club anymore

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ruin wrote

I’m many years (and currently, miles) removed from any scene, but there seems to be quite a bit of good stuff going on in various corners of the us.

Honestly not sure about what’s going on in Chicago. Philly seems cool for “non boys club” though.

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