Submitted by fortmis in Europe

I'm getting so much information coming in from all over the place. some of it makes more sense to me than other parts of it. part of me wonders how much I just don't understand because of d33p historical subtext.

Mostly I'm struck by the lack of airtime given to hearing from people living in Ukraine -- of the Russian diaspora, and of longer Ukrainian heritage. They are an obvious silent mass in this whole affair. And if this is truly a matter of "nationhood," or resisting western imperialism (on the one side) and russian imperialism (on the other) you'd think there would be more bureaucrats/politicians claiming to speak for the masses using these points... to imply having the backing of the people, but I'm not even hearing that.

I'm also wondering how much of this ever even had to do with NATO. That always felt like a thinly veiled excuse to start shit. but then what is this really about? Is it "simply" a matter of Russia refusing to relinquish an implied (and historically wrought) ownership over Ukraine? And what does Ukraine offer to NATO/the US other than a sort of "fuck you" move against Russia?

Just tryna collect my thoughts. I'm curious what folks here have to say about it. InYourOpinion what the h is going on?



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crime wrote

I'm not sure this answers all the questions you have, and it doesnt give a clear "here's what's REALLY going on", but I found this video that Atlanta Antifascists recently put out helped me get some more nuanced context and understand it a tiny bit more from an anti-imperialist and antifascist point of view.


fortmis OP wrote (edited )

interesting read. was not expecting so much nazi talk, but i probably should have seen that coming.
i'm noticing a lot of "how independent are the separatists really" and feeling like this is a weird point to spend so much time on... isn't it obvious that russia is not going to be partial to ukrainian separatists ... whether they're public or not doesn't matter -- they're obviously in cahoots. correction: russian separatists in ukraine


Epicalyx wrote

I recently posted this crimethinc piece which was put together by a lot of people and details a lot of the background to the issues


MHC wrote

Putin's revanchist rant wanted to restore the Soviet Union.