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5

rmblock wrote

No, it is extremely far-fetched to think. Whatever your brand of left/anti-capitalism, it hurts us as a whole when we dwell on this (now 16+ years later).

Forget the literally thousands of people who would need to be involved; We know from the history of the USA and empire as a whole that people can be marched into war without pulling off wild capers like this.

Furthermore, consider:

  • The long debates over the past nearly two decades about the Iraqi Baath party's connection to al-quaeda - If someone were just planning a false flag with the goal of occupying Iraq, why not pin it on a group that could be directly associated with them?
  • The many ways that a smaller, more secret group could have pulled off an equally devastating attack without needing to involve air traffic controllers and building demolition crews.
  • There are thousands and thousands upon thousands of architects and engineers in the world, very few of whom have real-world experience with controlled skyscraper demolitions or the affects of airplanes crashing into buildings. So honestly I take their expertise with a grain of salt.

The fact is that our world is all messed up, and sometimes horrible things happen as a result. Indulging in this kind of conspiracy thinking does nothing to fix what has already gone wrong in its wake, or acknowledge the real frustrations with US foreign policy that lead to support for things like this in the first place. It doesn't even explain away our failure to stop the ensuing global war on terror. It's a distraction, and responsible people on the left should drop it completely.

I also find super racist the often-repeated argument that the group planning the attack were backwards 'cavemen'- These were people dedicating their lives to war with the most powerful military state in history, with the support of powerful people and at least some measure of popular support, but of course a handful of crusty old CEOs and dynastic politicians were able to slip one of the most horrific terrorist attacks in human history under all our noses.

2

mofongo wrote

Weren't most of the perpretators upper middle class and college educated? Hardly cavemen in my book.

This sort of thing will resurface after the documents showing the CIA planning to stage terrorism in the US as anti Cuban propaganda.

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CrimesOfTheUSEmpire wrote

Weren't most of the perpretators upper middle class and college educated? Hardly cavemen in my book.

You know I was talking about those who were claimed to have guided this operation (i.e. Osama Bin Laden and his folks who are are literally cavemen)?

3

mofongo wrote

Osama bin laden was the son of a billionaire (and very personally rich himself) that studied in elite schools and universities. I'm pretty sure that most of his close associates have a similar background.

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CrimesOfTheUSEmpire wrote (edited )

But he was still living in seclusion, and even if he and his whole people had PhDs that doesn't mean that they can orchestrate an attack as simple as a hijack against 4 airplanes in the most sophisticated air-defense empire.

By the way can you tell us why WTC7 - which wasn't hit by an airplane - fell down?

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raindropq wrote

yeah ,the other two massive buildings fell right on it so the foundation was corrupted. kinda like trees standing by their rhizome connections

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CrimesOfTheUSEmpire wrote

Whatever your brand of left/anti-capitalism, it hurts us as a whole when we dwell on this (now 16+ years later).

No, more than 1 million peaceful lives have been claimed, we will NEVER EVER forget no matter what.

All of your arguments do not absolutely relate to the actual facts that even if the planes hit those towers it wouldn't been sufficient to brought them down, and that WTC7 - which wasn't hit by any plane - was brought down at nearly free fall speed for more than 2 sec, the only acceptable conclusion is that this was done by explosives, regardless of who orchestrated this massacre or for what reason. If you want to disagree, fine, what can explain the fact that WTC7 - which wasn't hit by any plane - was brought down?

There are thousands and thousands upon thousands of architects and engineers in the world, very few of whom have real-world experience with controlled skyscraper demolitions or the affects of airplanes crashing into buildings. So honestly I take their expertise with a grain of salt.

Well the documentary does quote demolition experts as well as the very same engineers who were involved in the WTC construction (including WTC1 chief electrical engineer). By the way, you don't need to put your trust in their expertise, just look at what happened to WTC7.

Forget the literally thousands of people who would need to be involved; We know from the history of the USA and empire as a whole that people can be marched into war without pulling off wild capers like this.

The fact is they literally pulled up straight fake news ("Saddam has chemical weapons!") to further push for the war. Why would they do that if there was no need for it? And you think Bush would just announce "yeah let's invade Iraq, war on terror!" without any actual terror and everyone would've accepted it?

I also find super racist the often-repeated argument that the group planning the attack were backwards 'cavemen'-

I didn't use the word "backwards", and I agree with you on this but it's just to illustrate that they didn't have the technical expertise to conduct such a massive hijacking of 4 planes, almost at the same time, and that they were successful against the most sophisticated air defense empire in the world.