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yam wrote (edited )

Reply to comment by keez in by !deleted20335

You completely ignored the part where Signal is a non-profit with limited funding and no monetary gain from people using their product.

Yea, don't get me wrong: Facebook is pure evil. It must go.

signal-cli fills a gap Signal hasn't thought of. LibreSignal filled a gap Moxie doesnt care about.

Yes, I agree, and that's the issue. As you write: Whether Moxie "cares about" a certain app could decide whether it's "allowed".

LibreSignal was a fork without GPS. Its different.

I'm still unsure how this is different. It's not like LibreSignal is/was using Signal servers to provide some unrelated service. It's just an alternative client connecting to the existing Signal service, much like signal-cli.

But I think that whole question is a red herring, as the question is more generally about whether service providers have authority to tell users which client to use to connect to their servers.

And Moxie also has some good arguments for just "allowing" their one official Signal app, that he's talking about in The Ecosystem Is Moving. For instance, disappearing messages rely on the client actually making the messages disappear after the timer has expired. If some "unauthorized" clients keep expired messages, then that functionality would be considered unreliable and buggy.

I still think it's an issue that needs to be thought about. I'd be really sad if they "disallowed" signal-cli, for instance. Which they may likely do because it's been patched to allow registering a desktop device, breaking down the smartphone-only wall of exclusion.

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keez wrote (edited )

I seriously doubt Moxie or anyone deeply involved with Signal intentionally wants to maintain a "smartphone-only wall of exclusion".

Check moxies twitter. He's complaining about having to write software three times (desktop, iOS, Android). Having registrations on the desktop client means having to maintain it, including tests for it and bugfixing.

I seriously doubt they do that on purpose. Idk why you look at moxie and think he is doing that intentionally.

Its clear that desktop is not their main priority. They looked for devs for a long time

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yam wrote

I seriously doubt Moxie [...] intentionally wants to maintain a "smartphone-only wall of exclusion".

Idk why you look at moxie and think he is doing that intentionally.

We've moved the goal posts, because now we're not discussing what the Signal team are doing but whether it is intentional. Whether intentional or not, whether good or bad, fact is that Moxie has been outspoken against 3rd party clients connecting to their servers.

Check moxies twitter. He's complaining about having to write software three times (desktop, iOS, Android). Having registrations on the desktop client means having to maintain it, including tests for it and bugfixing.

Yes, well, I think that is an odd attitude: Insisting that you and only you do task X and then complaining that X a lot of work. External volunteers are doing the work for them, yet they're rejecting their pull requests.

Registrations on Signal Desktop was already working but was removed later. It only has to be written once as their Signal Desktop is in Electron.

Signal is a fine messaging app and I use it too, but I wonder if we're suffering from Stockholm syndrome when we look at an organisation that openly partners with Microsoft, Facebook and Google and even used to include Google backdoors in their app (hence the need for LibreSignal, regardless how often or rarely those backdoors were in use), and then still assume that they're all good intentions.

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