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isvarahparamahkrsnah wrote

The creator Signal didn't like it when someone forked Signal and named it LibreSignal

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keez wrote (edited )

Wrong. He didn't like that they used their server bandwidth.

He's totally fine with the fork, but preferred that they use their own server and not include "Signal" in the name.

There are a lot of newer forks now that uses their server, and it seems like he doesn't mind as much nowadays.

Keep in mind that this was before they received 50 million USD from Brian Acton. They were barely able to maintain server costs, so Moxie telling them to stop "leeching" is understandable.

Imagine if someone demanded a percentage of the food you grew by yourself, for which you need to feed your family.

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yam wrote (edited )

Wrong. He didn't like that they used their server bandwidth.

But even MS allowed for Pidgin to log on to MSN Messenger while that was around.

This "don't touch our servers with your modified client" is definitely a new (and not particularly anarchist or free-software-ish) tone. Incidentally, there are lots of "unauthorized" Signal clients that "use their bandwidth", such as signal-cli, which is currently required to run Signal Desktop without owning a smartphone.

Edit: I mean, look at the amount of free/libre 3rd party Facebook clients. In a way it even looks like Facebook is more "open" in this regard.

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keez wrote (edited )

You completely ignored the part where Signal is a non-profit with limited funding and no monetary gain from people using their product.

Signal-cli has a different use case. I think they accept that because it serves a useful purpose. LibreSignal was a fork without GPS. Its different.

signal-cli fills a gap Signal hasn't thought of. LibreSignal filled a gap Moxie doesnt care about.

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yam wrote (edited )

You completely ignored the part where Signal is a non-profit with limited funding and no monetary gain from people using their product.

Yea, don't get me wrong: Facebook is pure evil. It must go.

signal-cli fills a gap Signal hasn't thought of. LibreSignal filled a gap Moxie doesnt care about.

Yes, I agree, and that's the issue. As you write: Whether Moxie "cares about" a certain app could decide whether it's "allowed".

LibreSignal was a fork without GPS. Its different.

I'm still unsure how this is different. It's not like LibreSignal is/was using Signal servers to provide some unrelated service. It's just an alternative client connecting to the existing Signal service, much like signal-cli.

But I think that whole question is a red herring, as the question is more generally about whether service providers have authority to tell users which client to use to connect to their servers.

And Moxie also has some good arguments for just "allowing" their one official Signal app, that he's talking about in The Ecosystem Is Moving. For instance, disappearing messages rely on the client actually making the messages disappear after the timer has expired. If some "unauthorized" clients keep expired messages, then that functionality would be considered unreliable and buggy.

I still think it's an issue that needs to be thought about. I'd be really sad if they "disallowed" signal-cli, for instance. Which they may likely do because it's been patched to allow registering a desktop device, breaking down the smartphone-only wall of exclusion.

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keez wrote (edited )

I seriously doubt Moxie or anyone deeply involved with Signal intentionally wants to maintain a "smartphone-only wall of exclusion".

Check moxies twitter. He's complaining about having to write software three times (desktop, iOS, Android). Having registrations on the desktop client means having to maintain it, including tests for it and bugfixing.

I seriously doubt they do that on purpose. Idk why you look at moxie and think he is doing that intentionally.

Its clear that desktop is not their main priority. They looked for devs for a long time

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yam wrote

I seriously doubt Moxie [...] intentionally wants to maintain a "smartphone-only wall of exclusion".

Idk why you look at moxie and think he is doing that intentionally.

We've moved the goal posts, because now we're not discussing what the Signal team are doing but whether it is intentional. Whether intentional or not, whether good or bad, fact is that Moxie has been outspoken against 3rd party clients connecting to their servers.

Check moxies twitter. He's complaining about having to write software three times (desktop, iOS, Android). Having registrations on the desktop client means having to maintain it, including tests for it and bugfixing.

Yes, well, I think that is an odd attitude: Insisting that you and only you do task X and then complaining that X a lot of work. External volunteers are doing the work for them, yet they're rejecting their pull requests.

Registrations on Signal Desktop was already working but was removed later. It only has to be written once as their Signal Desktop is in Electron.

Signal is a fine messaging app and I use it too, but I wonder if we're suffering from Stockholm syndrome when we look at an organisation that openly partners with Microsoft, Facebook and Google and even used to include Google backdoors in their app (hence the need for LibreSignal, regardless how often or rarely those backdoors were in use), and then still assume that they're all good intentions.

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