Came across this tumblr page while searching for another site. I think it's very funny how people discover ancom and that's it. End of the line. They hear that they can do less work, have no bad people while maintaining all of their current luxuries and ecocidal consumption habits and they don't want to hear a single word that would fracture their fragile ideology. They feel theoretically superior to liberals yet entrap themselves in the same mindprison.
Edited out a bad joke
Could you have done this maybe without making yourself out as a victim though? Like brown people have a lot of reasons to dislike whatever kinds of white people they want, including white vegans. And you getting salty about it and taking it as some kind of lulzy radlib shit is fucking gross.
Maybe take a second to consider that brown people have a fucking point rather than prioritizing how righteous you think you are.
I though it was clear that was a joke lmao
Yeah yeah I joke about brown people's boundaries all the time too.
🙄😬
It's super funny jokes.
You're right, I'm totally racist and you should cancel me for attempting a joke (that had nothing to do with them being brown and everything to do with them being a liberal carnist)
Please don't put words in my mouth. This isn't the first time that you've talked about how no one can ever criticize white vegans and that's just 100% bullshit.
Like you're really trying to make jokes about how white vegans are being demonized by brown people who don't want anything to do with them? And you think that's a good look? By ignoring your absolute privilege over a brown person who doesn't share your diet choices?
I mean if it looks like a racist...
When did I say white vegans can't be criticized? Now you have just put words in my mouth.
What I have said before is that think it's funny how many people online think all white vegans are racist etc. It's very common and it's not just racialized people who complain about it, in fact it's mostly white liberals who do it. There are in fact plenty of shitty white vegans but the idea of "white vegans" is often used to imply that veganism is racist, colonialist, etc. It's a defense mechanism used by liberal carnists to show that veganism is not woke enough. It's ridiculous. The reason I made the joke was not that they were brown, simply just the because they mentioned "white vegans".
The person in the screenshot clearly wants nothing to do with any sort of criticism whether it's coming from a white vegan or a black post-leftist. I kind of doubt they would want to hear from a brown vegan either.
Look I get what you're saying about them being brown and having boundaries, and I realize that they've probably been harassed by shitty white people online. I'm just going to remove that poorly written joke and not bring up the whole "white vegan" thing anymore if people are just going to misinterpret it as me being racist, because I don't want to give anyone that impression. In fact one of my reasons for my diet choices is not supporting the exploitation of people in the global south and the theft and destruction of their ancestral land.
No, I didn't put words in your mouth because we had a whole conversation where you explained that only vegans are allowed to criticize vegans and that any criticism that isn't from a vegan is unwelcome. Which is, you know, bullshit. But moving on.
You have a tendency to "not all x" these criticisms.
And that's not a great position to argue. White people who are also vegans can be actual entire problems. Are all white people who are also vegans a problem? No, But that doesn't mean that there isn't something about the combination of whiteness and veganism that creates this super-storm of really gross behavior. I went over that with you when we last had this conversation.
Are you a white vegan, as in a person who participates in the behaviors that brown and black people don't want to associate with? Or are you a white person who is also a vegan? Because there's a difference and all of your railing against people who use the term white vegan to specify a particular set of problematic and gross behaviors is just icky af.
Especially if your veganism is expressly tied to anti-racist ideas.
If your name was Karen would you understand that calling someone "a Karen" is a meme and not a statement about all people who happen to be named Karen or would you also get all eyeroll and "not all Karens" about it?
I'm sorry I'm icky? Lmao
You're allowed to think it's bullshit but I don't put much weight into criticisms of white vegans coming from people who don't support animal liberation. There's plenty of POC vegans that have much better criticisms of white vegans that I would much rather listen to.
I don't think my argument is "not all x", and if it comes across that way then I haven't been clear enough.
My point is that often when people speak of white vegans (often the people doing the speaking are white themselves), it is used as an attack on veganism as a whole. It's usually (in my experience) coming from people who claim that veganism itself is colonialist, racist, consumerist, etc. From what I have seen online, it's usually part of an attack on veganism from woke liberals who are using idpol to deflect from having to defend their carnism in other ways (because they can't).
people who use the term white vegan to specify a particular set of problematic and gross behaviors
This is the use sometimes, but as I have said, in my own experience, the "white vegan" thing is often coming from white carnists who try to tokenize POC as a defense for their own consumption.
I have had this experience several times in person and many time online, of white people attempting to use indigenous people as a defense for their own choices. They love to talk about how white vegans are problematic and pat themselves on the back while eating food grown on stolen indigenous land. It's disgusting.
I get that I probably should recognize that POC have better reasons than white people to complain about white vegans and that the joke I made was a little insensitive. However I stand by my claim that woke white carnists love to bring up white vegans as a defense for their own support of animal exploitation. Hope that's more clear.
moonlune wrote
Our only hope left is for them to discover bookchin, thus discovering ecology, understand that social ecology isn't quite anarchism, and then finally read up on the more interesting flavors of anarchism.
or for them to spend a few weeks in the wilderness and have an epiphany.