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Gwen_Isilith wrote

Reply to comment by d4rk in my political compass for reference. by d4rk

It has never been more obvious to me that someone has no idea what they are talking about.

What has led you to these conclusions?

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d4rk OP wrote

Other than Trauma and living in a majority rightist area, There's also an expression of disappointment.

like Racism, Fascism, the environment, gender discrimination, &c. were never meant to be my problem, I live in the 21st Century, these are problems that should have been solved before I was born.

The sentiment I gave in the compass was an expression that those people who express these views not just as reactionaries but degenerates who look for nothing but an ideology which gives them carte blanche to inflict harm and wreck havoc on their own people.

they're uncivilized, dirty, incestuos, pedophiles in majority and they call themselves "the master race", people today starve as this master race lives on the corporate towers of Queens

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Gwen_Isilith wrote

You have no answered my question. To restate my question was: what has led you to believe that anti-civ anarchists and Marxists are eco-fascists, or how do they fall into any of these other derogatory words you use such as incestuous.

I don't disagree with many of your conclusions, being uncivilized is dirty, degenerate, havoc, incestuous even pedophilic, racist and discriminate. Though I disagree with the negative connotation you give these words.

I think it's funny you assume the progress of civilization should have fixed these problems, a large part of the anti-civ critique is how these problems cannot be solved by progress. And how progress can be detrimental to oneself. Genocide and colonization have been the most progressive tools. "We must secure a future for our children and the white race" is a progressive slogan, meaning it is focused purely on the future.

Your comment "people starve as this master race lives on the corporate tower of queens", I also find peculiar. Surely the master race also starves? Are you so pure as that none of your identities occupy a priveleged position? The world would be much simpler if it were just good vs. evil but things are far more complex.

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d4rk OP wrote

I'm pretty sure Anti-civ anarchists and marxists as you think of them are within my categorization of uncivilized.

My idea of it is that Capitalist civilization should have broken down decades before my existence and my generation having new problems within this new world we're very privileged to have.

also, the conservative part of left conservative agrees with your point when you described...

how progress can be detrimental to oneself. Genocide and colonization have been the most progressive tools. "We must secure a future for our children and the white race" is a progressive slogan, meaning it is focused purely on the future.

There is the frequent call against "blind progress" that produces a "never ending vortex of agitation" for which the reason for my views.

The idea of the master race is that they never starve and I agree that my humanity gives me privilege to express my views at all.

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Gwen_Isilith wrote

I feel like you've continued to ignore my question. You use uncivilized as a pejorative, why? When i use all those negative terms that you attribute uncivilized peoples I do not mean them negatively.

I'm also curious as to why you think capitalism should have broken down before your birth?

I never made the claim your humanity gave you privilege, you seem to have misunderstood my point. What i am saying is that you are just as complicit in the master race you point to as any white person. Or put better, due to globalization complicity has become universal.

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d4rk OP wrote

Firstly, I'm not white.

I use uncivilized because it's the only translation for an alien concept to Teutonic Anglo-Saxon culture.

I believe that Capitalism should have been broken down before my birth because, as one of the things that led me to anarchism, how many revolutions have failed, social movements, activism, political struggles, blundered or may have killed millions. There was a century of opportunity for Capitalism to end, people say hindsight bias, their contemporaries however were more in line with the route to proper execution of the revolution as we do now. The latest one CHAZ was the final straw for me.

It sucks, genuinely sucks, that I have to live with the problems my forebears had. I have to keep up with every revolt failing and the same old problems. It's mentally and socially crushing to understand that you don't have a future.

you become the citizen of another world. This is not meant to be my problem. It makes me cry in bed every night thinking about how life could have been better before me and so I demanded my dreams into existence and pushed the morals and attitudes of this other world into ours to see that I will get to live in it while I'm young.

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Gwen_Isilith wrote

I never said you are white. I said that everyone irregardless of their whiteness or any other identities is complicit.

Honest it seems you are not understanding me or purposefully talking past me and it is making it difficult to have a conversation.

I will phrase my question one final time. You refer to fascists as uncivilized, and give a slew of other insults to cast at the uncivilized. But there are uncivilized Marxists and anarchists. What analysis do you have of anti-civ politics (uncivilized politics or anti-politics) that gas led you to conclude they are Fascist?

As for your explanation of why you feel capitalism should have been destroyed I cannot say I understand. Do you think CHAZ had any potential to destroy capitalism and even if it had that it would have created any better of a world? It seems to me that leftist revolutionaries want to create create world that is just as detrimental to me as this current reality.

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d4rk OP wrote

On your question, again, Uncivilized has a different meaning if you come from East Asia that it is from the west. Whereas in the west many proudly self-identity as "anti-civ". Civilization itself has a different meaning altogether in the East.

Whereas you see it as the aggregate of institutions and technologies, I assume, that make up the state and all forms of oppression. We see it as an aggregate of processes organically created from the bottom up for the benefit of everyone within society.

They are civilized because of, I'm going to use use obedience because yet again Teutonic Anglo-Saxon culture doesn't have another and better word for it, what you call rituals. Regardless of the presence of these innovations even primitivists can be civilized. Going to meetings is civilized, gardening is civilized, hunting parties are civilized, because thoigh they are daily activities, in aggregate they contribute to the wellbeing of the whole and therefore the stability of a society.

anti-civs as you define it will be far from being uncivilized in our standards since despite a gap in institutions, we could probably still understand you, have the same methods of courtesy and would probably be welcome to interactions that foster beneficence and social progress among both sides.

Secondly, I thought all movements had the potential to overthrow the system, even ours. But I'm pretty tired having this fight this fight that mentality and all solutions on the negative end end in Cult leaders. CHAZ was a breaking point, a time when I resolved never to enter revolutionary or activist politics ever again. I simply wanted to live my life the way it was promised by my forebearers, a society without state, capital, oppression, domination, inequity, starvation. No more movements, I want to exist.

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kokoaitu wrote

Uncivilized has a different meaning if you come from East Asia that it is from the west.

I would be interested in seeing the word you would use for some of these concepts in a language which better describes what you're after.
At a guess I am thinking your usage of civilized is similar to the Japanese concept of wa, or Chinese harmonious society.

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