Submitted by EmberGeoS in AskRaddle

I haven’t been here long, but I’ve seen a lot of anti-medicine and anti-science sentiment here, and it’s kind of disturbing. I get the basic critique, that doctors and scientists are an authority, but I would argue that it’s a justified hierarchy, as it takes a LOT of work to do either. There are obviously problems with some of these things, such as psychiatry, but these problems are not systemic to the fields, and tied in large part to capitalism. All of this seems kind of Anprim to me, and that’s not something good. Thanks for your responses.



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celebratedrecluse wrote

there is a huge difference between critiquing specific hierarchical structures (professional class authorities, technology) and being "anti-science"

I am a scientist who is seeking to dismantle the professional class' technological hegemony. I seem pretty welcome here, so I wouldn't say this place is "anti-science". It's just not blindly pro-technology (neither am I), nor do many of us accept the "justified hierarchy" line that offers a convenient intellectual excuse for handwaving some of the most ingrained and horrifying of hierarchical structures.

Additionally, I believe that without engaging with critiques of civilization or technology, you're bound to recapitulate the oppressive implementations of technology that we already have with utter lack of self-awareness. Obviously, a scientist like me uses certain technology, and so does a webhost or admin such as ziq. That doesn't mean we don't engage with critiques of that technology, and seek to find ways to implement what we desire with those critiques in mind.

To the contrary, I think this is a very hospitable place for scientists, and I'm glad to have a voice/space here.


ziq wrote

can you link to some examples of what you're talking about because I don't remember us talking about science.


EmberGeoS OP wrote

I think that I may be overreacting now that I look at it again, but this thread seems to have a lot. It may be because that was one of the first threads I looked at, now that I look at it.


ziq wrote (edited )

Yeah I don't really think those criticisms are about science - it's actually really anti-scientific to create and uphold normative depictions of 'happiness' and 'mental wellness', even medicating people in order to make them more "socially acceptable" (defined by your own perversely unrealistic standards).. It's completely natural for people to respond to the mountain of shit crushing down on them in this rapidly collapsing world with behaviors that make the establishment nervous.


L0rdEMPRESS_GaLaXyBrAiN wrote (edited )

You don't think there is anything wrong with psychiatry and psychology? Someone has never been on the receiving end of so-called "treatment."


g_puller wrote

As some one who was medicated by my highly religious parents, I can say from my own experience that psychologists are skilled labor. What that means is that they will try to take a raw product (the patient) and process (medication and 'therapy'') the raw product into what the customer (parents, for others it's courts or themselves) wants to form a finished product (the patient and what ever changes they want to see. These changes may not be what the patient wants, and may have lasting damages from the medications. It's all well and good and all if patient is instituting these changes and has an understanding of the possible damages, but in the case of parents who want to see a happy and compliant child it can be particularly damaging to the mental well being of the patient. I remember going to a psychiatrist and my parents complained nonstop, I didn't even say anything, and the psychiatrist wrote a prescription and we left. I look back on that from a perspective of a parent now and see that that guy was just a contractor to write perscriptions. In the case of courts due to damage to another individual it is a very grey area on how to improve the situation....


L0rdEMPRESS_GaLaXyBrAiN wrote

Some of my family members keep their kids in line with medication. Even though they tell them they don't like the way it makes them feel they still shove it down their throats because they just want compliant little robots... and surprise surprise there is a lot of money in raising kids through chemicals.


g_puller wrote

It seems like the way that my grandparents raised their kids might have been the better way to go. Kick them out of the house during the day and tell them to go play outside...


registrant wrote

I'm a psychotherapist but

  1. It's not a science
  2. It shouldn't be involved with medicine
  3. It shouldn't be diagnosing
  4. It's too often trying to make people fit in to a screwed up society

CaptainACAB wrote

I haven’t been here long

That's pretty obvious.

I get the basic critique, that doctors and scientists are an authority, but I would argue that it’s a justified hierarchy, as it takes a LOT of work to do either.

I don't think you get the basic critique at all. Why does the quantity of work justify authority? What's a "justified authority"? You realize that this forum is full of anarchists of the post-left variety, right?

All of this seems kind of Anprim to me, and that’s not something good.

What exactly is your critique on Anarcho-primitivism? I'll be the first to admit that I don't care for it either, but I feel like our critiques would be fairly different.


Bezotcovschina wrote

I wouldn't go "justified hierarchy" path here. They haven't to be hierarchies, to begin with. You've just linked one example and I could argue for it have nothing to do with scientce and/or medicine.


Cheeks wrote (edited )

I would imagine that most of us here are anarchists. Anarchism as a whole is reliant on science to further prove our ideologies. The behavioral biologist Dr. Robert Sapolsky has written extensively about forced hierarchical social structures regarding humans and also baboons, pointing out that thier hierarchical situation is one that is cultural and not only can be dissolved but has been in certain troops, resulting in a more egalitarian troop of baboons that tackle aggressive alpha male behavior from new comers and shut the shit down. Im gonna assume what you are referring to as science is the BS pseudo science that merely supports those in power like social Darwinism. Also I doubt any of us are opposed to doctors other than the fact that professions as a whole are not a human trait. That shit is serfdom and a perpetuation of capitalisms continuation. Modern medicine is bullshit, it has more to do with making money than healing or preventing issues in people. Plus some of what has worked for 100 thousand years medicinally is now shunned by drug manufacturers though the same plants are used to make their pills. Do some research.


ziq wrote

It's annoying when people ask questions and then disappear without engaging with the answers that everyone puts time into supplying.


L0rdEMPRESS_GaLaXyBrAiN wrote

Is anyone else tired of people coming in, saying some really ignorant shit, making blind accusations, and then asking to be educated? This is pure laziness. They just want to 'trigger' a bunch of people and force them to explain their views so they can go on later to parrot what they said and present it as their own original thoughts.


Waken wrote

Are you an anarchist?


asbestosstar wrote

There a just some things that Tech and science companies do that we do not like.I do not hate tech or science, and infact embrace them, but I do not like the ideas of hierarchy the companies have and the stuff they do to their customers.


alerdz5 wrote

I don't see an issue with science in general. What is wrong with investigating knowledge? What is wrong with seeing the world for what it is? Just applying the scientific method isn't wrong in itself. I can't say I see cause to have problems with a field when that's its central focus. So I'm not on board with anybody slandering science. It's like slandering a directions list to a location you want to go to. It's just a piece of information somewhere. It's not worsening anybody's existence. lol At this time I would like to know what people have to say about why science is bad. It's edited materials. That's what I would say. It's some other definition of science other than what science is. To call that what is actually going on in a field is just inaccurate. I don't know where people really get the conception that it's not right as an entity as it stands, I'm not understanding of that, actually. There's no understanding there. Oh, to be in a sense of understanding, that would be something. What a dream, if any dream could be introduced to people's attentions. lol