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2

Mance wrote

Absolutely. The speech you shut down might just be the advancement society is looking for. Once upon a time Gallileo's ideas about the universe were considered offensive, were against people religious beliefs.....what if the powers succeeded in stopping them? Darwin's ideas offended people religious sensibilities. In the 1800s in the US it would have been offensive in many areas to talk about equal rights for non-whites or women.

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sudo wrote

Racist speech isn't progressive, though.

"It is not enough to wear the mantle of Galileo: that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment. You must also be right." - Robert L. Park

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Mance wrote

True, racist speech is not progressive. The question is who gets to decide if speech is racist or not? It might not be obvious. If I said that I was going to ignore aboriginal treaty rights, someone might call me racist. But I might say that having different laws for aboriginal vs european peoples, based on who their parents were, is racist. Some people tie religion and race together......if I criticize some Islamic practices (say female genital mutilation),,,,some people might call that racist. Some might not. The problem with limiting speech is that we don't have some all wise all knowing being that can decide what is racist and what is not. Some people use "that's racist" as a generic shut down move when they feel that they are losing an argument. Unless someone is inciting violence against people, i.e. "kill all XXX", my preference is allow everyone to speak and let individuals make up their own mind on whether or not to believe or not believe.

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sudo wrote

I think it's usually pretty clear-cut what is and isn't racist. But, I'd rather have something not racist banned, than having something racist not banned (not that the first one would be very likely to happen).

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ConfettiEggnog wrote

I doubt I have met more than three people who were aware they were racist and were still racist.

More so, all people raised in the Western/White/Christian world is mildly racist. The kind that will revolt at discrimination, but still keep check the pocket for the iphone after passing a group of foreigners.

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sudo wrote

I didn't mean the racist person, I mean among leftists.

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ConfettiEggnog wrote

Since most people are mildly racist, I assume there are a lot of leftists among them, if not all.

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sudo wrote

It is true that most people (in the US, at least) are mildly racist, if not more so. But, that doesn't mean that every person is mildly racist. What is true for a group of people is not necessarily true for every individual person. Assuming it is is committing the fallacy of division. For example, if someone said, "Most astronauts are men. Valentina is an astronaut, so Valentina is a man," they would be committing the fallacy of division.

Besides, one thing leftists are known for is their rejection of prejudice, and self-criticism. There are a few racist leftists, but most are not (remember, liberals are not leftists).

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ConfettiEggnog wrote

In the 19th century, being a racist was a virtuous way of thinking. So a white man might have erotic fantasies with black men or women, but that was not his discourse. That was something to be discreet about.

In the 21st century, being a racist is unacceptable in most circles. So everything is cool. Whites even invented the term "color blind" to show off their coolness. They still have a very unnatural act in the presence of people of different skin colors, but nothing racist will part their lips - at least this is how they imagine things. Wait till "your daughter marries one of them".

You need the narrative of "a few". All this trendy racists are in their minds one of the few. This way you, and your dear ones, your mentors, are all exempt.

Also you are building a straw man. I write ALL in the sense that the two saints that aren't have two simultaneous qualities: 1. they are irrelevant compared with a few hundred millions only in the States and 2. they are not you.

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ConfettiEggnog wrote

You are right. It has never clicked on me that apart from being christians without god or the Vatican, anarchists are also deeply conservatives. In a disgusting way. I mean the conservatives I know are old men usually, losers dreaming of the days they were happy, unaware they just ignore the bad parts of those memories. The anarchists and communists I see are pining for some fairy tale they have never experienced and badly need to impose that on the others.

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ziq wrote

how do anarchists impose anything on anyone? we oppose being ruled.