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ConfettiEggnog wrote

The nation state is far more recent than democracy. Before 1848 only few people knew about the concept of nationality - something invented probably in the 16th or 17th century

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LostYonder wrote (edited )

I'm not aware of democracy actually being practiced anywhere. Some countries have degrees of liberal electoral democracy, but even that is mostly failed experiments in rule of the elite classes. Electoral democracy has no history beyond the nation-state and the construction of the idea of universal citizenship (which, again, doesn't actually exist anywhere).

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ConfettiEggnog wrote

You mean the usual example with Ancient Athens makes that Athens a nation state?

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LostYonder wrote

Seriously? Athens, a democracy? what do you even mean by democracy? How can a slave society be considered a democracy? not to mention the total exclusion of women.

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ConfettiEggnog wrote

So democracy has a special, particular meaning. Wouldn't be easier to just use the dictionary terms for communication sake, instead of making endless opportunities to move the goalposts?