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heckthepolice2 wrote

I mean

On a more serious note, I think it's possible, but pretty rare for 2 main reasons I can think of

  1. Basic Standpoint Theory stuff; someone who's oppressed by a hierarchy is in a much better position to understand that hierarchy and its oppressive nature than a privileged person. For a privileged person to learn that stuff, they generally have to actually listen to marginalized folx, which cishet white men are... not great at

  2. When you're queer, trans, a PoC, neurodivergent, etc., just existing is in some sense a radical act and you never really had any choice of just being totally comfortable and complicit in hierarchy (at least not to the same extent), whereas if you're none of those things you have to actively choose to oppose hierarchies that you personally benefit from

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[deleted] wrote

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iznelavkcin wrote

This is why it needs to continuously be pushed out to the public this issue. It needs to be recognized, it needs to be noticed and it must be identified. There's such a high horse these people are on, it is duty to knock them off of it and show them what they have been responsible of. This can be done by abolishing capitalism, bringing down the rich white men to the eye level of those that they exploit and oppress. It is a long plan, and it will be a tough one to go thru with. But, revolution doesn't happen overnight and some people don't change - i understand. But, if we fight hared enough to expose the fuckery of cishet white men, it will begin to show its light. Keep up the fight.

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Raxalor wrote (edited )

I would probably rephrase that question so that it seems more inclusive:

Can those who benefit from social hierarchy ever truly be radical?

My answer would be: yes, but don't expect it to be many.

It requires a lot of extrospection, self-awareness, and a willingness to not only listen, but to also empathize with marginalized groups/communities.

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iznelavkcin wrote

It requires a lot of extrospection, self-awareness, and a willingness to not only listen, but to also empathize with marginalized groups/communities.

Yes. This 100%.

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[deleted] 0 wrote

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Raxalor wrote

I know it's ridiculous, but there is a reason I mention it.

There are a lot of cishet white men that are very new to leftist ideas in the U.S. (almost all of them, I'm sure, consider themselves democratic socialists or at the very least social democrats).

If they see posts, such as this one, they're just going to immediately be on the defensive instead of actually considering it. It's problematic when you consider that it's a hell of a lot easier for them to regress back into their old familiar viewpoints than it is to question the very structure of society.

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rot wrote (edited )

I try.

it took some time and effort to overcome pre-programmed assumptions and attitudes and i'm always trying to improve. no one is born radical but if you can listen to your comrades and have a hatred of oppression you can get there

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shanc wrote

no one is born radical

Everyone is born radical

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rot wrote

correction: very few are raised radical

I for sure struggled with sexism/ableism because that's how I was raised. I'm still learning.

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shanc wrote

I was raised the same :(

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rot wrote

it's the culture. a 1000 little things that shape our perception

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CaptainACAB wrote

You aren't going to fail at crossing a river just because you're swimming against a strong current.

Being a cismale, I'm placed into several categories that put me in a more privileged position within the social hierarchy, but I haven't ever thought of LBGTQ communities or women as inherently lesser beings that need to be exterminated or subjugated and always find myself disgusted whenever someone that does believe that they should be makes those views known.

Being black, latino, and neurodivergent; I'm placed into several categories that put me in lower social standing than my white and/or neurotypical counterparts, and because of this, I've had to get over what I now realize was my self-hatred due to belonging to those groups in addition to having to purge myself of the negative connotations that I've had about these groups of people that I myself belong to.

The overall point here is that benefiting from this shitty hierarchical system doesn't mean you're inherently barred from hating that it exists and wanting to tear it down; and belonging to a group that is oppressed and/or exploited by this system doesn't mean that you are necessarily against it.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

better question is, can anyone ever truly be "radical"

but if you could, would you really want to?

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LostYonder wrote

Leftist/radical to a point. The privilege that we white cishet men have is unimaginable and so naturalized in our own constructions of the world and structurally reinforced that being able to truly step out of it is near impossible.

First, mentally and ideologically, we can certainly espouse radical ideas, including significant critiques of our own privilege. Though, most of what we espouse is theory advanced by other white cishet men. Few of us engage the ideas of oppressed thinkers.

Second, in action, we can be on the streets but, as a previous thread had exposed, we have the privilege of punching Nazis that people of color don't have. Even in how we protest, commit illegalist activities, confront those in power, we are protected by our privilege. Our actions are defined by our privilege.

Third, few of us actually have the capacity for empathy, care, and to hear (not just listen) what others are saying. Privilege has ingrained in us particular modes of sociality that preclude true radicalism. Again, many of us attempt to transcend our conditioning, but it is a struggle with our own privilege.

The mere fact that one will argue that we actually can be radical is itself an indication that true radicalism remains elusive...

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BrowseDuringClass1917 wrote

Second, in action, we can be on the streets but, as a previous thread had exposed, we have the privilege of punching Nazis that people of color don't have. Even in how we protest, commit illegalist activities, confront those in power, we are protected by our privilege. Our actions are defined by our privilege

Is weaponizing your privilege as a white person not exactly how you combat it and other injustices?

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turtles2 wrote

No you're banning me because you're authoritartian bigots just like the far right. You feel good standing on a pedestal with your noses in the air. When your self congraglatory, "I'm special, I'm a victim" hierarchy is questioned, you fold without rebuttal because you're weak. I've survived a baseball bat to the back of my head. Sent facists to the ER as well. Been charged with "disorderly conduct" several times for speaking. All this when you were posting to your cutter albulm and looking for a BBC to suck on craigslist. Enjoy your white hate circle jerk parade. You're a fine recruitment tool for the far right. I'll be on the equal left,the real left, when you guys need help. Bye Enjoy feeling superior. I'm on G3 if you have the guts to continue a debate you'll lose.

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turtles wrote

Ridiculous! Straight white men are NOT privileged by this "hierarchy". Suggesting all SWM's ideology holds less value or they can not be oppressed is bigatory defined. I'm calling out anyone who says otherwise. I proudly define as a leftist, and I've never fucked another dude in the ass.

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LostYonder wrote

aren't you conflating a gross generalization with bigotry? As well, to assert so aggressively that white cis men are NOT (sic) privileged and face bigotry seems to answer the question...

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turtles2 wrote

where's your rebuttal? Not character assassination. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

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LostYonder wrote

A rebuttal isn't require - everything you say, how you say, your anger/defensiveness, etc. prove the issue...

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turtlesshapiro wrote

All cowards. My undisputed counter was only responded with childhish baseless insults, accusations. pffff bunch of thesaurus pseudo intelect chomsky posers trying to turn out gullible freshmen. Not worth trolling even if that was the purpose. I'll read here for amusent but last post 4 real. Challenge to be owned remains. turtles on G3

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shanc wrote

challenge to be owned remains

Angery Brocialist TOTALLY OWNS ENTIRE FORUM with UNDISPUTABLE FACTS and BIG BRAIN LOGIC

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