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2

sand wrote

play, i think

which can include language??? maybe. maybe it's a side thing that can only either detract or distract from joy of play. maybe only using it to show it is useless is useful, and sometimes fun. maybe i should stfu

idk

wow im late

defasher is cool, ty 4 question

2

stay2rue wrote

I love sign language. When I’m sleepy, my first impulse is to sign, gently motion my responses. I wish more people knew ASL—especially bartenders, much easier in a loud bar to order a beer or split the check in ASL (American Sign Language)

2

Majrelende wrote (edited )

I would think drawing would work, but it would be even more work than using language. Instead, what would you think of rational constructed languages, or even some type of language reform?

3

Defasher wrote (edited )

rational constructed languages

Please explain what that is. How can something artificially constructed be rational?

language reform

Like u/languagebot tried to do? Look what a clusterfuck that was. Dictating language to people just fuels reactionaries because it allows them to point at us and say '"look, sjws are ruining SOCIETY!" And 98% of the population are going to be naturally resistant to change, so rather than change their language, they'll just hop on the fash train.

2

Majrelende wrote

How can something artificially constructed be rational?

Look at programming languages. I am not exactly sure what something similar for actual communication between people would be like, but this could be a source of inspiration for those who would want to do so.

Dictating language

I never suggested that it would be forced on anyone else. I understand and agree with what you said, but I was suggesting voluntary reform among those who wanted it.

2

zzuum wrote

Toki Pona

2

TheLegendaryBirdMonster wrote

I've started learning toki pona, there is so little vocabulary that the syntax gets complicated very fast when we try to share complexe thoughts.

3

zzuum wrote

Kinda the point. Because it's difficult to express complex ideas, one needs to think of other ways to communicate. It called the "language of happy" because you need to simplify your thinking to speak with it.

2

Bandit wrote

More detail would be good - do you mean language or talking?

Alternatives to words would still be forms of communication.

If talking is the problem, then typing should be ok? If it's symbolic thought and communicating symbols, then I don't know. Maybe Zerzan has something interesting to say.

3

Defasher wrote

Being more detailed would limit the conversation. That's another problem with words; they're too limiting. They force you to narrow everything down to specific pre-determined scenarios that people can readily envision instead of abstract ideas that might exist outside our sphere of understanding. How can we see past our layers upon layers upon layers of bullshit civil conditioning if we can't allow ourselves to envision an existence that isn't predicated on the exchange of ideas and the growth of the human knowledge pool? What if words; the exchange of ideas; communication; society is all a death spiral towards mass destruction?

Alternatives to words would still be forms of communication.

Only if you think of alternatives that are designed to communicate.

1

foggymorn wrote

But what would be the point of life if we couldn't communicate with each other? Everything we've evolved to be came from our innate need to express ourselves and share ideas with each other.

2

Defasher wrote

But what would be the point of life if we couldn't communicate with each other?

The point of life is to communicate with each other..? If that's the case then we've failed big time.

But do we actually communicate with words? It feels like we miscommunicate. We so desperately try to express ourselves, to understand each other, and we completely fail at it. We lie to ourselves and to each other constantly in order to be able to live with the constant gnawing isolation we feel every second of every day all in the name of making a connection with another human and for what?

...So we can stroke each other's egos pretending we're connected and on a shared journey; a union of 2 distinct beings that understand each other? We don't. We don't understand each other. The only thing we're sharing is our desperation to not be alone. We're not connected. We're not united. Our needs only match when we compromise to avoid further isolation.

Everything we've evolved to be came from our innate need to express ourselves

Why do we need to express ourselves in a way that other people will understand? Why does me expressing myself have to be designed towards the benefit of others? Why must my thoughts need to be constantly re-interpreted into words in order to express them to other people in a way that they can understand them?

2

Freux wrote

Would you have a better way to express yourself with others? Put your thoughts on "paper", make lists, exchange ideas, organise, etc.

Animals have language, whatever it's sound, smell or visual, and they haven't create a destructive civilisation yet.

Language evolve, it will never be perfect, just like anarchism.

Communication is both way, people understanding you, can also benefit you.